Ratings & Reactions: Southampton v Villa

[OutByEaster?]

18 minutes ago, BOF said:

Losing with 12 men on the pitch is not good. Martinez outstanding. McGinn invisible. We are prone to terrible lapses and seem to get punished more often than not.

I'm prepared to an extent to forgive McGinn - I think it's always been obvious he's not a six, he's a midfielder that makes things happen, that needs the freedom to do that and lacks the positional discipline to do something else - playing McGinn next to Nakamba and expecting him to become a disciplined, sensible, calm, positionally savvy player who can keep the ball is daft. He's a marauder, he gets forward, he runs people down, he gets into attacking positions where he's not expected - putting him where we put him last night is taking all that off him and asking him to be exactly the player he's not. That was my view going in and I think it was evidenced on the performance.

 

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think there's probably some truth in that - Dean's strengths as a man manager are in that he cares about his players, he encourages an atmosphere where they feel like a family, where they're supported and can develop - those are important tools, but right at the top, with the likes of Mourinho and Tuchel, there's also that little bit of something ruthless, Jose would treat you like family for four months then cut your throat in your sleep for a win. It's been clear for a while now that the players really like him and the player interviews from last night really underline that, it seems to be a really good atmosphere in which to work and develop - but maybe working and developing becomes the aim where the top managers will take the infliction of a bit of misery and hardship for a win. I always get the feeling that Pep would ruin your knees and shorten your career to get one good season out of you - Dean cares a bit more - maybe he's too nice a manager.

Of course, in times of better results, that's just styles and it might just be the pain of recent results that's making me feel that way.

I am always dubious, when players like the manager....respect him yes....like, not so sure about that.

[IrishVilla10]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm prepared to an extent to forgive McGinn - I think it's always been obvious he's not a six, he's a midfielder that makes things happen, that needs the freedom to do that and lacks the positional discipline to do something else - playing McGinn next to Nakamba and expecting him to become a disciplined, sensible, calm, positionally savvy player who can keep the ball is daft. He's a marauder, he gets forward, he runs people down, he gets into attacking positions where he's not expected - putting him where we put him last night is taking all that off him and asking him to be exactly the player he's not. That was my view going in and I think it was evidenced on the performance.

 

100% agree with this. It’s been obvious for two seasons, Terry even said in an interview we were asking him to play out of position. Sometimes we see glimpses of what mcginn does regularly for Scotland and I’d like to see him do it for us more often, but we don’t give him the chance IMO. 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm prepared to an extent to forgive McGinn - I think it's always been obvious he's not a six, he's a midfielder that makes things happen, that needs the freedom to do that and lacks the positional discipline to do something else - playing McGinn next to Nakamba and expecting him to become a disciplined, sensible, calm, positionally savvy player who can keep the ball is daft. He's a marauder, he gets forward, he runs people down, he gets into attacking positions where he's not expected - putting him where we put him last night is taking all that off him and asking him to be exactly the player he's not. That was my view going in and I think it was evidenced on the performance.

 

and I think you are right....but then, I have to ask myself, why has it been so long in the making.

We supposed to have professional coaches, can't they see it?

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, IrishVilla10 said:

100% agree with this. It’s been obvious for two seasons, Terry even said in an interview we were asking him to play out of position. Sometimes we see glimpses of what mcginn does regularly for Scotland and I’d like to see him do it for us more often, but we don’t give him the chance IMO. 

I'm not sure it's that we don't give him the chance, it's more that we can't give him the chance because we don't have the personnel to support him - even with Luiz back, you'd be looking at having Luiz and Nakamba behind him - our midfield is piss weak. Chukwuemeka is currently suffering for the same reason.

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

I just don’t see them sacking him regardless.

Then we can't bitch, when it turns even sourer.....its our own fault.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure it's that we don't give him the chance, it's more that we can't give him the chance because we don't have the personnel to support him - even with Luiz back, you'd be looking at having Luiz and Nakamba behind him - our midfield is piss weak. Chukwuemeka is currently suffering for the same reason.

 

We had an opportunity in the summer....we passed it over, by the look of things.

All this is our own fault.

[BOF]

27 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm prepared to an extent to forgive McGinn - I think it's always been obvious he's not a six, he's a midfielder that makes things happen, that needs the freedom to do that and lacks the positional discipline to do something else - playing McGinn next to Nakamba and expecting him to become a disciplined, sensible, calm, positionally savvy player who can keep the ball is daft. He's a marauder, he gets forward, he runs people down, he gets into attacking positions where he's not expected - putting him where we put him last night is taking all that off him and asking him to be exactly the player he's not. That was my view going in and I think it was evidenced on the performance.

 

I agree and wasn't blaming him for it. It was more an observation. The problem is he's such a key character and it's such an important position that you put yourself at a massive disadvantage if either of those things don't fire.

[IrishVilla10]

31 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure it's that we don't give him the chance, it's more that we can't give him the chance because we don't have the personnel to support him - even with Luiz back, you'd be looking at having Luiz and Nakamba behind him - our midfield is piss weak. Chukwuemeka is currently suffering for the same reason.

 

100% agree, we should have sorted it in the summer. 

[Talldarkandransome]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

As long as they know how to win in reasonable chunks, they could have 2 heads, for all I care.

Nah we don't want baggies fans applying

[AvonVillain]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I am always dubious, when players like the manager....respect him yes....like, not so sure about that.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Let's take Klopp, for example; an elite level manager with obvious charisma among other attributes. I'd be very surprised if the overwhelming majority of players who have played for him in his managerial career wouldn't admit to both liking and respecting the man.

[allani]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

and I think you are right....but then, I have to ask myself, why has it been so long in the making.

We supposed to have professional coaches, can't they see it?

I think there is an element of loyalty there.  McGinn was a major part of getting us back into the Premier League.  I think Smith is so desperate to believe that he can do the same in the Premier League that he seems blind to the fact that it isn't working (or only works intermittently).  Mind you I have probably had more disagreements with fellow fans over McGinn than any other player (except maybe Luiz as it seems to be that most people are in one camp or the other).  But this is itself is a weakness of Smith - he seems to have players that he is happy to take off every match regardless of performance whilst certain others seem to be immune to the chop even when they are clearly struggling.

[flashingqwerty]

7 hours ago, skell said:

I believe the 3 big signings have had 35 minutes on the pitch together. Think about that 

That's because they don't all fit into the same system.  

With everyone fit, I would not want to see all 3 starting.  Would be a massively imbalanced side.

[tom_avfc]

3 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

That's because they don't all fit into the same system.  

With everyone fit, I would not want to see all 3 starting.  Would be a massively imbalanced side.

Bailey left wing, Buendia right wing and Ings up front?

Means dropping Watkins but not sure what the issue with those three playing together is to be honest.

[TRO]

just being listening to the pundits debate, after the Man U offering......The comments being made, they could so easily be talking about us.

Same parallels.

[OutByEaster?]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

just being listening to the pundits debate, after the Man U offering......The comments being made, they could so easily be talking about us.

Same parallels.

Very much - both teams are struggling because they're short of midfield options and have no control of games.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Very much - both teams are struggling because they're short of midfield options and have no control of games.

but the annoying thing is....many posters inc me, were saying it on here and I was accused of labouring the point, which i was.

Roy made a good point of looking around the bus and saying, my job depends on some of these, and looking at their faces......it really does get down to that.....but in both cases, they are their players.

The problem in football is, if an obvious problem is not fixed in time, it ballons in to something much bigger, and it spreads to other areas.....right now, we have so many issues, it's hard to know where to start.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TRO

[OutByEaster?]

Roy?

[zenda]

Hodgson. Manager of Man Ure apparently *shrug emoji*

[villalad21]

Looking at the fixture list I don't see where the next win is coming from.

If Smith stays on we will no doubt be in the bottom 3 by Christmas.

The 2 teams that I felt were guaranteed wins have now sacked their managers and will now be harder games.

Edited November 7, 2021 by villalad21