YLN Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, QldVilla said: His heart stopping is a sign that his body can no longer handle the stress of a game at an elite level. This isn’t a one off scenario, it could happen again. Yes he will live a long and happy life, but not as an elite football player. Nonsense. His heart stopping was just that. His heart flipped into an aberrant rhythm like a DJ changing songs at a wedding. Just because it got everyone at the wedding to stop dancing, doesn't mean the marriage is doomed. It's not a reflection on his overall health. Yes it could happen again. Ideally not while he's playing football, but if it does, he has the implanted defib which will shock him back to a normal rhythm. He'll probably need to be subbed then. His cardiac arrest was not from organ failure or his 'time being up'. 18 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: That depends on the diagnosis as to why the heart failure occurred. If CE has the issues with his heart related to ventricular arrhythmia he would not pass a medical at Villa and would not be playing football He did not have heart failure. It was a cardiac arrest. If CE goes for his medical and he is in ventricular fibrillation, then yes he will fail the medical. He will also not have a pulse, which will be a bigger issue. CE is in a normal heart rhythm basically all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 35 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: And would Freddie fit the bill as RB to cover for Cash during the next 18 months? I hope he would I think kesler will be in the first team squad by the start of next season. I would also hope fred comes back this month to help cover our defence. I still rate him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Well......The links so far , fill me with melancholy. all red herrings, I hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, Yorke81 said: Basically he is extremely motivated to get back in the game, so he can win a spot in the danish team going to the World Cup. With the interview today (nicely subtitled in English, and released early in the transfer window) and his agent throwing comments about how much he loved his time in England, he is definitely letting his intentions show. To my knowledge Daley Blind plays with a similar condition and pacemaker and has returned to top level, so I’m also not convinced with the argument that CE could not do the same. He has used the last 7 months on medical tests while slowly turning up the intensity - he passed all tests and is fully fit according to the doctors. I don’t see neither commitment nor health as a concern, but as others mentioned he might not be the medicine we need at this point. I didn't mention his commitment or health. What I said is if you push your body to hard, it will push back. He may be able to play in a lessor league and get away with it, but at some point the body may push back. That a majority of pacemakers are installed in people over 60 and it does not reduce the chance of cardiac arrest occurring again, should send a clear message. His health should be the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Well......The links so far , fill me with melancholy. all red herrings, I hope. Agreed for the most part. Digne, Tagliafico, Gomez and Coutinho all worry me quite a bit. For a variety of reasons. Hoping the media don't know what they're talking about - but they have a habit of being right when we don't want them to be at times. The short-termism of most of them is what would bug me most, we've improved every year so far with our 22-25yo signings and planning for the future, this year's been a blip for sure - but I'd hoped we won't throw the playbook out the window because Jack left and our form dipped. On paper, Gomez, Coutinho and Digne would all be good signings. Other clubs would sit up and take notice of those - particularly after Ings and Buendia in the summer. But I feel like we'd stagnate and then wind up having to go and sign the 22-25yo in 18 months time anyway. We may aswell save ourselves the money and hassle and do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 47 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: That's total nonsense. Heart failure has nothing to do with the body not being able to handle the stress. Yeah it does. Increased blood pressure occurs during exercise, as you get older the body reduces it's ability to control these stresses. He may have always had an underlying congenital condition which decided to come forward, due to the stress his body as an elite athlete has been under for the past 10-15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, YLN said: Nonsense. His heart stopping was just that. His heart flipped into an aberrant rhythm like a DJ changing songs at a wedding. Just because it got everyone at the wedding to stop dancing, doesn't mean the marriage is doomed. It's not a reflection on his overall health. Yes it could happen again. Ideally not while he's playing football, but if it does, he has the implanted defib which will shock him back to a normal rhythm. He'll probably need to be subbed then. His cardiac arrest was not from organ failure or his 'time being up'. He did not have heart failure. It was a cardiac arrest. If CE goes for his medical and he is in ventricular fibrillation, then yes he will fail the medical. He will also not have a pulse, which will be a bigger issue. CE is in a normal heart rhythm basically all the time. Well the data says most people with a pacemaker are over 60 years of age, and the pacemaker doesn't reduce the risk of it occurring again. Increased blood pressure through exercise causes stress and will be the major contributer to it occurring again. There's been numerous elite athletes over the years who have had similar issues, most not lucky to survive it. There is a correlation and it is the intensity of the exercise. To think that at some point through your lives that your body will not push back is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, QldVilla said: Well the data says most people with a pacemaker are over 60 years of age, and the pacemaker doesn't reduce the risk of it occurring again. Increased blood pressure through exercise causes stress and will be the major contributer to it occurring again. There's been numerous elite athletes over the years who have had similar issues, most not lucky to survive it. There is a correlation and it is the intensity of the exercise. To think that at some point through your lives that your body will not push back is naive. A pacemaker is different from an ICD. ICDs don't reduce the risk of recurrence, but they do reduce the risk of death. In the grave style death. Yes most people with pacemakers are elderly. Probably ICDs too. Raised BP in isolation is not a known trigger for VFib I don't know if there is evidence to support elite athletes being more likely to suffer sudden cardiac arrest. Yes bodies 'push back' with age. It's why i never met my great great great grandfather. I'm not sure what your point is though. If CE and his doctors are telling him he can take the risk, and his contract with any club is pay as you play or similar then I don't see why he shouldn't be an option for an wnflish xlub. If he can play in the lower leagues, he should be able to play in the top leagues. I don't really follow that distinction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laughable Chimp Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 Didn't know VT had so many cardiologists. 2 2 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubliner Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Of the players linked so far I'd love to see us make a move for Doig from Hibs. Looks a really promising left back and Targett really needs some more competition. I personally think if we sign Doig now he'll be first choice at the start of next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, YLN said: A pacemaker is different from an ICD. ICDs don't reduce the risk of recurrence, but they do reduce the risk of death. In the grave style death. Yes most people with pacemakers are elderly. Probably ICDs too. Raised BP in isolation is not a known trigger for VFib I don't know if there is evidence to support elite athletes being more likely to suffer sudden cardiac arrest. Yes bodies 'push back' with age. It's why i never met my great great great grandfather. I'm not sure what your point is though. If CE and his doctors are telling him he can take the risk, and his contract with any club is pay as you play or similar then I don't see why he shouldn't be an option for an wnflish xlub. If he can play in the lower leagues, he should be able to play in the top leagues. I don't really follow that distinction We all grow old differently, you can have 100 people who are all 28 years of age, but due to genetics all of of their bodies have aged differently. He may have an underlying genetic condition that is brought on around his age, or may have been brought on sooner because of the stresses he has placed on it as an elite midfield player over several years. I haven't raised whether he should play or shouldn't play again. What I have said is that he cannot continue to play an elite level due to the risk of reoccurrence and that risk will become higher as he becomes older and his body is unable to meet the external presures he is placing on it. I've had two friends over the years who have kept really fit, both competed at a high level in sport and both continued their fitness levels as best they could. One died at the age of 38 after going to the gym for three hours, the other 46 after completing a 15km run after work, he was still trying to run over 80km per week. You can either take the hints the body sends you and reduce the loading/intensity as you age, or you risk something more severe possibly occurring. The point is the risk and the body can only take so much physical intensity during a life span. His body has sent him a message, just because the risk of death is reduced by artificial means, doesn't mean the long term affects don't become more serious. Edited January 5, 2022 by QldVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaslash Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 You have to love this site. I was hoping to find out who we are being linked with as defensive midfielder but instead have been sifting through who is our leading Cardiac expert. You would never get this on a Blues site. please Villa sign someone soon so we can get back to what we do best-debating if we should give the new signing more time… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, HalfTimePost said: Agreed for the most part. Digne, Tagliafico, Gomez and Coutinho all worry me quite a bit. For a variety of reasons. Hoping the media don't know what they're talking about - but they have a habit of being right when we don't want them to be at times. The short-termism of most of them is what would bug me most, we've improved every year so far with our 22-25yo signings and planning for the future, this year's been a blip for sure - but I'd hoped we won't throw the playbook out the window because Jack left and our form dipped. On paper, Gomez, Coutinho and Digne would all be good signings. Other clubs would sit up and take notice of those - particularly after Ings and Buendia in the summer. But I feel like we'd stagnate and then wind up having to go and sign the 22-25yo in 18 months time anyway. We may aswell save ourselves the money and hassle and do it now. The only one I would definitely steer clear of is Coutinho his wages would be ridiculous and I doubt his current abilities physically. The others would be good signings depending on what the manager wants from a player in their given position. For me the priorities are a DCM, 1 full back on each side and a centre back...... in that order. I feel we may go for a more attacking full back at the expense of defensive ability because of how Gerrard plays his 3 central midfielders. That means someone like Tagliafico is more of a defensive fullback than an attacking one, Digne is a happy marriage of both defense anc attack hence why he is rated so highly. Of the foreign lads, Sosa strikes me as the obvious choice as he is more attack than defence, still young and will be a lot cheaper than Digne on wages. Hickey has high potential and is more attack than defence but his deliver is a bit toss, he is young it will get better but he likes to shoot more than your average full back. I haven't seen us linked with right backs but we should be going for a high potential youngster in my opinion with the view to him challenging cash now and replacing him within a couple of years as Cash is adequate for Gerrards style for now. DCM is easy for us to buy a good one as there are loads that are going cheap and we have been linked with a lot of them. I am more worried about the wages incoming players earn than the fees as it is wages that keep expensive mistakes at your club and they kill future budgets (See Arsenal over the last decade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, villaslash said: You have to love this site. I was hoping to find out who we are being linked with as defensive midfielder but instead have been sifting through who is our leading Cardiac expert. You would never get this on a Blues site. please Villa sign someone soon so we can get back to what we do best-debating if we should give the new signing more time… The blues fans are too busy making one eyed babies with their aunt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, TRO said: Well......The links so far , fill me with melancholy. all red herrings, I hope. Well it seems this is a recurring theme every window, very few ever come to fruition anywhere. I think the only real one might be a general enquiry for Hickey at this point and I expect Percy to pipe up any minute with news that we are close to a player that hasn't been mentioned at all yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 One would think that Cristian Ericksen would fare better as a squad player for Pep in a team that controls possession so well and let the ball do the running instead of the player. At the opposite end it might be a disaster to work under Bielsa say, where its high energy every minute. If I were CE I'd make an intense workout video for youtube asap, possibly with a mock medical showing what he's got (KW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Wonder if Danilho Doekhi might be an option at the back as cover/potential starter, seems he was on SG's radar at Rangers. Maybe we can bypass that next move in his career and bag him on the cheap instead of paying 5x as much in a year or two. Two footed, reads the game well, great tackler, pacey and strong, he's on Dynamo Z's and Napoli's radar too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 You know that Rob bloke (McKenzie?) that was ex Leicester. I thought he was supposed to be unearthing some hidden gems for us. Or is that something we made up? Genuine question…what does he do again? Does he still work for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 5 hours ago, brummybloke said: I think kesler will be in the first team squad by the start of next season. I would also hope fred comes back this month to help cover our defence. I still rate him. He’ll be challenging Matty Cash hopefully, be an interesting battle between the 2 of them, both outstanding players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Gregg Evans saying in the Athletic, Gomez would be a non starter this window as Liverpool not letting him leave but Nat Phillips a possibility. Also talks about Hickey and Owen Wijndal (not going to pretend I’ve heard of him). However, the article, though quite interesting is more about who would be a good fit from people we’ve looked at before rather than inside knowledge about actual likely transfers. He does mention loans being a strong consideration for various areas. I’m all for a decent loan signing, esp with an option to buy eg Nat Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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