Danny Ings

[duke313]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

He doesn't do any of that stuff particularly well (by Premier League standards). That's why he goes missing from games.

And no it's not pointless doing that stuff if you don't score, so long as your *team* scores & wins. Football is a team sport.

I agree Watkins would be a much better player if he was a better finisher, but his goalscoring record is pretty typical of a mid-table PL striker, and was better than Ings's the one full Villa season they both played regularly.

Again, that's simply not true. A myth. A Fabrication.

Ings has similar passes attempted, pass completion, progressive passes, dribbles.

And he has more tackles, blocks, clearances.

The only standout for Watkins is aerial challenges won, which is not terribly important unless you're playing Burnley hoofball.

 

[PaulC]

Watkins was outstanding at spurs. Ings is a great option and with the close proximity of games should have started last night but for me Watkins is still no 1

[Pinebro]

3 hours ago, duke313 said:

Good to know. Will bare that in mind when Ollie has missed a few more sitters costing us points. As long as his pressing stats are good though. 

Ronaldo way better finisher than Martial but it's irrelevant.

Martial still a far better striker.

[KentVillan]

30 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Again, that's simply not true. A myth. A Fabrication.

Ings has similar passes attempted, pass completion, progressive passes, dribbles.

And he has more tackles, blocks, clearances.

The only standout for Watkins is aerial challenges won, which is not terribly important unless you're playing Burnley hoofball.

 

Those stats don’t cover any of the stuff we were talking about apart from headers, what are you on about? Can you read?

[KentVillan]

Pressing is about forcing mistakes, negative passes etc so they get trapped in their own half.

Ings is a good player but he’s clearly less busy. The fact he makes 1.16 tackles per game instead of 0.6 is irrelevant. It’s about team shape and covering ground. A Premier League striker isn’t there to put in tackles and blocks, but he needs to lead the press, and make movements where he can receive out balls. Watkins is clearly much better at this.

I agree Ings is a much tidier, more technically accomplished footballer. But so is Coutinho, and I wouldn’t start him either.

Edited January 5, 2023 by KentVillan

[duke313]

15 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Those stats don’t cover any of the stuff we were talking about apart from headers, what are you on about? Can you read?

The only thing not covered there is distance.  Do you even know what pressing is?  I'd say that's covered quite well with tackles, interceptions and blocks. Maybe you can't read?

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

The only thing not covered there is distance.  Do you even know what pressing is?  I'd say that's covered quite well with tackles, interceptions and blocks. Maybe you can't read?

No, in addition to distance covered (which is quite important) it also doesn’t cover positioning, how quickly they execute the press, etc. I mean fine if you really believe Ings is Watkins’s equal in this area of the game, but most people who watch them both play regularly knows that’s wrong, so not sure what more I can say. Emery has been picking Watkins for a reason.

[LondonLax]

53 minutes ago, duke313 said:

The only thing not covered there is distance.  Do you even know what pressing is?  I'd say that's covered quite well with tackles, interceptions and blocks. Maybe you can't read?

“Tackles, interceptions and blocks” isn’t “pressing”. Pressing is closing down a player quickly so they make a mistake like a rushed pass or poor clearance. You don’t need to touch the ball to press effectively but you do need to be mobile. Watkins clearly is better at the pressing side of the game and also chases down lost causes and holds up the ball well. Ings on the other hand is better at making use of the ball when it’s available in dangerous areas. 

[duke313]

39 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

No, in addition to distance covered (which is quite important) it also doesn’t cover positioning, how quickly they execute the press, etc. I mean fine if you really believe Ings is Watkins’s equal in this area of the game, but most people who watch them both play regularly knows that’s wrong, so not sure what more I can say. Emery has been picking Watkins for a reason.

If pressing is all that matters to you, then Watkins is clear of even Haaland in that regard.  But for me a striker needs to do more than just press. Watkins is let down by his composure, first touch, passing even. Ings is clear in these departments. Emery will be forced soon enough to start Ings more regularly.  

[KentVillan]

12 minutes ago, duke313 said:

If pressing is all that matters to you, then Watkins is clear of even Haaland in that regard.  But for me a striker needs to do more than just press. Watkins is let down by his composure, first touch, passing even. Ings is clear in these departments. Emery will be forced soon enough to start Ings more regularly.  

Of course they need to do more than just press, but Watkins was 8th highest scorer in the PL in 2020/21, and Ings was 11th.

Watkins misses a lot of chances, but he also gets in a lot of goalscoring situations. That's the dilemma.

[duke313]

5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Of course they need to do more than just press, but Watkins was 8th highest scorer in the PL in 2020/21, and Ings was 11th.

Watkins misses a lot of chances, but he also gets in a lot of goalscoring situations. That's the dilemma.

You’re comparing a season in which Ings played for Southampton? You make it sound like there was a massive gulf in the goals scored, Watkins scored 14 and Ings 12, and Watkins had the advantage of over 1000 extra minutes played.

Here is a nice graph I’ve found that shows pressures from forwards in top 5 leagues.

Our two are slap bang in the middle, not much separating them. Which only confirms it’s a myth that Ings doesn’t offer anything in that department.

Watkins is still an asset, but Ings should be the focal point of the attack, with Watkins out wide or in support.

 

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

You’re comparing a season in which Ings played for Southampton? You make it sound like there was a massive gulf in the goals scored, Watkins scored 14 and Ings 12, and Watkins had the advantage of over 1000 extra minutes played.

Here is a nice graph I’ve found that shows pressures from forwards in top 5 leagues.

Our two are slap bang in the middle, not much separating them. Which only confirms it’s a myth that Ings doesn’t offer anything in that department.

Watkins is still an asset, but Ings should be the focal point of the attack, with Watkins out wide or in support.

 

Just sense checking the data, it has Jack Grealish as one of the best pressers in European football?

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Just sense checking the data, it has Jack Grealish as one of the best pressers in European football?

Must have been trying to impress Pep in order to get more starts 

[AVTuco]

Ings is such an intelligent footballer, whereas Ollie is really dumb running machine. They are both incomplete, but a clever manager can get the best out of them in different situations.

 

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

You’re comparing a season in which Ings played for Southampton? You make it sound like there was a massive gulf in the goals scored, Watkins scored 14 and Ings 12, and Watkins had the advantage of over 1000 extra minutes played.

Here is a nice graph I’ve found that shows pressures from forwards in top 5 leagues.

Our two are slap bang in the middle, not much separating them. Which only confirms it’s a myth that Ings doesn’t offer anything in that department.

Watkins is still an asset, but Ings should be the focal point of the attack, with Watkins out wide or in support.

 

We weren't a high pressing team under Geerard. The forwards were there to block passes into midfield and funnel the ball wide. A teams tactics are a big factor. Liverpool and City are such high pressing teams we see Jack there and when he was playing his best football at Villa the season before he wouldn't be anywhere near his position up the op of chart as he is at City

[Pinebro]

Don't see the point to loan him out. 

Guy is 30 years old.

Only going to sink in price from now. Try to sell him while we can still get a decent fee for him.

[nick76]

2 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Don't see the point to loan him out. 

Guy is 30 years old.

Only going to sink in price from now. Try to sell him while we can still get a decent fee for him.

Why sell a player that scores goals.  

Teams in this league are crying out for players that can score yet we have one sitting on the bench who comes on and scores and has scored 6 goals in the equivalent of 8.5 games.  

Stupid to even entertain selling an asset like that for £10-15m.  

Even if he doesn’t start, those goals are vital for us to move up the league.  

Much rather have Ings on my side than in the opposition teams.  

So what if we lose him for nothing in a few years time, those goals could be very valuable to us.

Good player, scores goals, isn’t complaining being on the bench, great attitude, seems a happy person and liked by other team members, valuable experience, can help younger players.  It all seems positives and to give that up for a small fee seems silly to me.

[Strog]

Danny is our only natural goal scorer, it would be utter madness to loan or sell him at this stage. I’m sure Unai has already figured out that we need other options up front and this will be addressed in the next couple of transfer windows.

[Spoony]

I genuinely think he’s one of our best players. Hurts me that he doesn’t start. His tally of contributions and his stats re scoring opportunities speak for themselves. In terms of football intelligence and awareness I’m not sure we have anyone better. 

[MentalM]

Why do we have to put Ings and Watkins up against each other?

Both are great at their specialities, but lacks in other areas.

I hope Ings get more game time, but I still rate Watkins.