Jareth Posted June 29, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2021 Not sure I understand any allegations that Tammy is inconsistent - 12 in 32 last season and 18 in 47 before that. He's a top level young goal scorer. Is there less shine because we had him in the championship? I don't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: Not sure I understand any allegations that Tammy is inconsistent - 12 in 32 last season and 18 in 47 before that. He's a top level young goal scorer. Is there less shine because we had him in the championship? I don't get it. A lot of Villa fans didn't like him for us in the Championship because: He wasn't our player and "Loans = holding back our own young talent, like Davis" He missed a handful of tap ins, so he "is a poor finisher", even though he statistically was right up there with other top finishers in the league. Media was reporting that he wanted to leave to join Wolves in January, so he "wasn't committed" to the team I also think a lot of fans don't like the reported 40 million pound price tag the media has affixed to him, meaning he would be our record signing for a position we already have filled by Watkins (last year's record signing). Personally, I would love to have him back and he gives us so many more options in attack. I don't care about the price tag, because none of us know what our budget is or what the actual prices are behind the scenes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, allani said: Given that @nick76 has broken his radio silence on Tammy - I'll give it one more go too. I genuinely believe that it would be possible to play Ollie, Tammy, Emi and Jack as a front 4 where we aren't playing 4-4-2 and where Ollie isn't put out on the left wing. All four have sufficient technical skill, athleticism and other key attributes that would (in my opinion) allow them to be assigned a specific role but be able to interchange with each other at different times during the match when required. By their very nature all four take up and exploit parts of the pitch that you might not expect a typical player in their "role" to take. All are happy going wide to exploit the channels. All are equally happy playing more centrally. I just think that the dynamism of that combination as a front 4 could genuinely be on a whole new level. Probably only City and Liverpool would be able to match it. I mean as a central defender who the **** do you decide to mark / track when Villa win the ball and you suddenly have those four running at you. On top of which I think that all four could form an amazing bond off the pitch and people just play so much better together when they are mates, get along and want each other to do well. I have no available likes today but I agree completely. The list of reasons to sign him from above, injuries, tactics, form, competition and the fact it's a very low risk transfer for a 23 year old seems a slam dunk. Apologies, I may have missed something in my fanboy delusion but the only genuine reason that i gather against it is that some feel we have other priorities more pressing. I understand their point and while I dont agree, as the priority list is subjective. I'm assuming most though, if they knew we could still get our other targets would think that buying Tammy would be a good idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Tammy options We play Ollie in a different position to last season , when he was unbelievable in that position. We drop Ollie and bring in Tammy up top. We put Tammy on bench as back up, tammy will not be happy and probably cause unrest around the squad . Before someone says play 2 up top we are not in the 90s anymore 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Last season we were fortunate Ollie wasn’t out for any length of time. Also £40m is peanuts when you consider how much we’ll benefit financially from Champions League qualification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, KMitch said: A lot of Villa fans didn't like him for us in the Championship because: He wasn't our player and "Loans = holding back our own young talent, like Davis" He missed a handful of tap ins, so he "is a poor finisher", even though he statistically was right up there with other top finishers in the league. Media was reporting that he wanted to leave to join Wolves in January, so he "wasn't committed" to the team I also think a lot of fans don't like the reported 40 million pound price tag the media has affixed to him, meaning he would be our record signing for a position we already have filled by Watkins (last year's record signing). Personally, I would love to have him back and he gives us so many more options in attack. I don't care about the price tag, because none of us know what our budget is or what the actual prices are behind the scenes. As someone once said - I'd rather have a striker who creates 5 chances and buries 2 of them, then a striker who waits for 1 chance and puts it away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, KMitch said: A lot of Villa fans didn't like him for us in the Championship because: He wasn't our player and "Loans = holding back our own young talent, like Davis" He missed a handful of tap ins, so he "is a poor finisher", even though he statistically was right up there with other top finishers in the league. Media was reporting that he wanted to leave to join Wolves in January, so he "wasn't committed" to the team I also think a lot of fans don't like the reported 40 million pound price tag the media has affixed to him, meaning he would be our record signing for a position we already have filled by Watkins (last year's record signing). Personally, I would love to have him back and he gives us so many more options in attack. I don't care about the price tag, because none of us know what our budget is or what the actual prices are behind the scenes. I also dont get this Watkins thing. I love Watkins I really do and I think he's just going to get better and better but if somebody comes to challenge him that can only be good for us. Either Watkins keeps improving or he loses the shirt if the other player is doing better whether that is Tammy or somebody else. Ollie has the shirt at the moment if we only play one striker but why not have someone fighting him for it. I dont understand why Ollie must be completely protected. For us to progress we need to keep improving and I really hope Ollie is part of that but if he isnt then he isnt. I think he most certainly will but I also think that Tammy would be as well and we'd have two quality strikers. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, pete101 said: Tammy options We play Ollie in a different position to last season , when he was unbelievable in that position. We drop Ollie and bring in Tammy up top. We put Tammy on bench as back up, tammy will not be happy and probably cause unrest around the squad . Before someone says play 2 up top we are not in the 90s anymore You realise there is more than one game a season? The season is long, there will be many different reasons that either or both could play. If we are to progress as a club we have to stop fixating on just the first XI but at least a strong 18-20 players because things happen. You mention the 90's you seem to be thinking of the 90's in terms of squad as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, pete101 said: Tammy options We play Ollie in a different position to last season , when he was unbelievable in that position. We drop Ollie and bring in Tammy up top. We put Tammy on bench as back up, tammy will not be happy and probably cause unrest around the squad . Before someone says play 2 up top we are not in the 90s anymore Football is not date related as such....its just trends and whats in vogue.....The best teams usually set it, and the rest follow. It wouldn't surprise me if 2 up top comes back in to fashion at some stage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, pete101 said: Tammy options We play Ollie in a different position to last season , when he was unbelievable in that position. We drop Ollie and bring in Tammy up top. We put Tammy on bench as back up, tammy will not be happy and probably cause unrest around the squad . Before someone says play 2 up top we are not in the 90s anymore Ollie had two long scoring droughts last season: 9 matches (Mid November to Late January) 7 matches (Mid-February to Early-April) That's 16 of the 37 League games he played where he wasn't scoring consistently... Tammy in the squad would push Ollie on to be better or step in and take over when he falls off form. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: You realise there is more than one game a season? The season is long, there will be many different reasons that either or both could play. If we are to progress as a club we have to stop fixating on just the first XI but at least a strong 18-20 players because things happen. You mention the 90's you seem to be thinking of the 90's in terms of squad as well There is no getting around it , one of them must be first choice , you can pretend all you like that we would rotate them every other game but that's not gonna happen, I agree with the point we need depth to our squad A: bring in a significant upgrade to Ollie , which Tammy is not b: bring in an outside forward that is comfortable down the middle, which Tammy is not bring a young hungry forward from a lesser club that is more than happy to wait for his opportunity, which Tammy is not bring an older forward on wrong side of his career that is more then happy let Ollie be main man and help him along the way This only way I personally can see us adding to the squad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, pete101 said: Tammy options We play Ollie in a different position to last season , when he was unbelievable in that position. We drop Ollie and bring in Tammy up top. We put Tammy on bench as back up, tammy will not be happy and probably cause unrest around the squad . Before someone says play 2 up top we are not in the 90s anymore I don't believe they are the only options. I genuinely believe that you can play Ollie, Tammy, Jack and Emi as a front four in a way that doesn't mean that we play "old school" 4-4-2. I guess on paper that would probably mean having a 4-2-3-1 formation and maybe listing Ollie or Tammy in a slightly deeper "10" role. But in effect I think it would be so fluid that it would be closer to the "total football" approach of the Dutch whereby at any single point in time any one of the 4 players could be playing in any one of the 4 positions. Ollie drifts wide to exploit the flank, Tammy is in the centre waiting for a cross and Jack drops into the CAM role. Tammy goes to the right, Ollie is in the box, Jack down the left and Emi moves central. All four can score goals, all four can fashion chances for each other. Just so many options. And when we get a free-kick / corner then either JWP puts it in the top corner or we have Tammy and Ollie as genuine targets in the box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, pete101 said: There is no getting around it , one of them must be first choice , you can pretend all you like that we would rotate them every other game but that's not gonna happen, I agree with the point we need depth to our squad A: bring in a significant upgrade to Ollie , which Tammy is not b: bring in an outside forward that is comfortable down the middle, which Tammy is not bring a young hungry forward from a lesser club that is more than happy to wait for his opportunity, which Tammy is not bring an older forward on wrong side of his career that is more then happy let Ollie be main man and help him along the way This only way I personally can see us adding to the squad I understand what you are saying I just don’t agree but that’s ok it’s all about opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I remember no one agreed with me on here the season before last when I suggested that Abraham would become available once Lampard left, it was a bold thing to say, at the time Abraham was doing extremely well and being talked up to the heavens, the idea that Chelsea would let him go anytime soon just seemed too radical, there was a gloomy mood because of the idea that if it wasn't for Chelsea's transfer ban we might have signed him in the summer but had now lost our chance because of his form. I'm not sure I understand how he's gone from being so highly rated on here, to people talking as if £40m is some sort of ridiculous sum of money for him, he's easily worth £40m, for me that would represent a bargain if a team was to get him for that much, check out his goalscoring record, his all round play isn't as bad as people make out either, excellent work rate and he's comfortable on the ball., frankly if he was a VIlla player and for sale I'd want more than £40m. All that said, I don't think we will be in for him, if we go for another striker it's more likely to be a cheaper option who will be happier to be a squad player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Alvarez plays all across the front. Would he be a better option as backup to Watkins? I just cannot see both Watkins and Abraham being happy in the same squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 No-one has quoted me and argued against me, shall I faint? 3 likes too, I think that is a record for me! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, allani said: I don't believe they are the only options. I genuinely believe that you can play Ollie, Tammy, Jack and Emi as a front four in a way that doesn't mean that we play "old school" 4-4-2. I guess on paper that would probably mean having a 4-2-3-1 formation and maybe listing Ollie or Tammy in a slightly deeper "10" role. But in effect I think it would be so fluid that it would be closer to the "total football" approach of the Dutch whereby at any single point in time any one of the 4 players could be playing in any one of the 4 positions. Ollie drifts wide to exploit the flank, Tammy is in the centre waiting for a cross and Jack drops into the CAM role. Tammy goes to the right, Ollie is in the box, Jack down the left and Emi moves central. All four can score goals, all four can fashion chances for each other. Just so many options. And when we get a free-kick / corner then either JWP puts it in the top corner or we have Tammy and Ollie as genuine targets in the box. Plus when you bring Bertie on (or when he starts to give one of the others a rest) nothing changes. He would fit straight into that system. Probably the same for Chuck, Barry and the young Argentinian link. They all look like they could fit into that type of dynamic / fluid attacking unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: No-one has quoted me and argued against me, shall I faint? 3 likes too, I think that is a record for me! I think a few of us feel bad for having bantered with you a bit too much in the past. Glad to have you back, SGC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: Alvarez plays all across the front. Would he be a better option as backup to Watkins? I just cannot see both Watkins and Abraham being happy in the same squad. Very high risk because of settling, culture change, different style and far from home and young. I like the sound of him but not if that’s the expectation for him. He needs to be brought in and allowed to settle over time. Back up sounds fine unless he’s needed. Edited June 29, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, Enda said: I think a few of us feel bad for having bantered with you a bit too much in the past. Glad to have you back, SGC. No such thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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