Tammy Abraham

[nick76]

39 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

£40M is "proven premier striker" money and Tammy is not that and I think Villa know that !

Ignoring the 40m value, to say Tammy isn’t a proven premier striker is just a bizarre statement.

[Dave-R]

30 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

If we sign Tammy then I'll jump highest if he scores. I don't dislike the guy, I just don't believe he is a proven player at this level which is a view taken not only by some past managers but by a lot of Chelsea fans. People claim he banged in lots of goals last season and that equals proof but at least half of those goals were in cup games against weakened or lower division sides against whom he is a proven striker.

£20M is a gamble worth taking, £40M is "proven premier striker" money and Tammy is not that and I think Villa know that !

Tammy is a proven premier scorer what madness is this post. Tammy has been scoring for Chelsea and yes they are Inthe premier which I'm sure this all makes him a proven Prem scorer. All in all if 40 million is his fee then he's worth it. As some have pointed out there are people on here who keep saying Tammy isn't worth the price, yet many of you are Happy we went and paid 33 million for a championship striker, makes no sense. The 7 million difference somehow has you lot messed up in the head and the level between the championship and premier is a fair bit. Some make the jump up and were fortunate Ollie did, but that easy could of turned into a 33 million mistake. If the oportunity came up again and it were Tammy at 40 or an Unknown player at 30, unless the club really did there homework on that championship player, the choice for me would be Tammy. I do believe the only reason Watkins got the nod was because of Smith's time with Watkins, otherwise we may offended up going for Tammy. I do believe if the club are after another forward of great quality and ability then Tammy will easy be seen as a steal for 40 million.

I think it's obvious you have not been watching any Tammy since he was at villa, he has come along way and whoever snapsthe lad up will have an heck of a forward next season. Tammy also has a year in Watkins and at some point Watkins maybe moved in in a few season time. Yes it's a while away but planning here would be when Watkins does move on we have someone ready to move in his first team place then we go look for the next player who can jump into Tammy's place, never ending cycle.

I don't get the way people are on here towards Tammy, he's s fabulous player who's similar to Watkins but also has different strengths and weaknesses. Personally I find it strange that people wouldn't want a player with Tammy's ability back at Villa. You usually find there reasons for not Wanting Tammy is back is because they call him shit, do not Watkins place under threat or that both Tammy and Watkins can't be at the club together, all are absoloute sillyness.

[brummybloke]

32 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

If we sign Tammy then I'll jump highest if he scores. I don't dislike the guy, I just don't believe he is a proven player at this level which is a view taken not only by some past managers but by a lot of Chelsea fans. People claim he banged in lots of goals last season and that equals proof but at least half of those goals were in cup games against weakened or lower division sides against whom he is a proven striker.

£20M is a gamble worth taking, £40M is "proven premier striker" money and Tammy is not that and I think Villa know that !

He was chelseas top league scorer in 2019/20 and 2nd joint last season. He doesn't take the penalties and last season was 1 goal less than their top scorer who takes penalties.

Chelsea, who finished 4th both seasons.

Not sure who you think we will be buying with better credentials to make the jump up to the top 6 ? 

That have PL experience,  are young and hungry and who are of decent character?

It could well be we buy him, he helps get us up the league and we then sell him once we can improve again in that position, he will still be young enough and will always score goals some worst case would be a promoted team spend their money on him.

We aren't going to be keeping most of our players for their entire careers, thats already been established by the club. We were also told we would need 3 teams when we got promoted, one to survive, one to then stabilise and one to push onwards to challenge the top 6.

We were also told that if a player becomes available of the right quality in an area we need to strengthen for the right price we would try and get them.

Yes there are other forwards out there but it becomes a very short list when you take into account what the club said they are looking for in players.

[nick76]

15 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Having 2 quality strikers isn’t unreasonable, but knocking Traore for scoring in a lesser league is like knocking Tammy for scoring most of his goals in the championship.

Not really because Tammy has proven he’s a goalscorer in the PL at a top club.  Tammy is also a striker throughout his career, the Traore thing here is a player whose a RW who has played sometimes as a CF but he is a RW.  It’s a chalk and cheese comparison mate.

[Dave-R]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Ignoring the 40m value, to say Tammy isn’t a proven premier striker is just a bizarre statement.

There are some strange daft reasons popping up wouldn't you say Nick?

I don't think I've seen anything like it for such a while, it is almost as if these people don't like Tammy but what's not to like about him?

I must be honest I'd love Watkins and Tammy both at Villa, we will never get that opportunity again once there careers are over, it's like a once in a lifetime thing. I want to see them at Villa because I believe that both of them could be a fantastic partnership. As TRO has mentioned both can co exist and both can be used in the same match and just because one striker is a thing now doesn't mean next season it won't switch back to two.

We need two strikers on a similar level for many reasons, it serves no purpose for Watkins to feel all godly that he can never be dethroned and that even if he has bad games. The idea of any player at villa being this comfortable can breed and bring in a relaxation we have seen time and time again at Villa, where many of our strikers end up going from great to worse. Davis can't give Watkins competition and be a threat to him, not a chance and I'm unsure and a massive question mark on Wesley if he can do it. If we move into next season with them two partnering Watkins,then I am pretty sure Europe won't be a thing. If it comes to the time that Watkins gets ruled out for some reason and Davis and Wes are then relied on the will assume that we have made a massive risk when we could of planned better in this area.

[Dave-R]

27 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Having 2 quality strikers isn’t unreasonable, but knocking Traore for scoring in a lesser league is like knocking Tammy for scoring most of his goals in the championship.

Don't know why Traore is being talked about but he's a RW for us, won't ever be put into a forward role while ever we have forwards that can play. Traore is a good player on the wing and I am hoping we get to see a better him next season.

No two quality strikers isn't unreasonable and a strong club who wants European football should have two, we have one strong striker we need a second.

[nick76]

19 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

There are some strange daft reasons popping up wouldn't you say Nick?

I don't think I've seen anything like it for such a while, it is almost as if these people don't like Tammy but what's not to like about him?

I must be honest I'd love Watkins and Tammy both at Villa, we will never get that opportunity again once there careers are over, it's like a once in a lifetime thing. I want to see them at Villa because I believe that both of them could be a fantastic partnership. As TRO has mentioned both can co exist and both can be used in the same match and just because one striker is a thing now doesn't mean next season it won't switch back to two.

We need two strikers on a similar level for many reasons, it serves no purpose for Watkins to feel all godly that he can never be dethroned and that even if he has bad games. The idea of any player at villa being this comfortable can breed and bring in a relaxation we have seen time and time again at Villa, where many of our strikers end up going from great to worse. Davis can't give Watkins competition and be a threat to him, not a chance and I'm unsure and a massive question mark on Wesley if he can do it. If we move into next season with them two partnering Watkins,then I am pretty sure Europe won't be a thing. If it comes to the time that Watkins gets ruled out for some reason and Davis and Wes are then relied on the will assume that we have made a massive risk when we could of planned better in this area.

Completely agree about the draft reasons popping up and also people trying to put words in my mouth that i've never said about why would we put Ollie out wide. 

There also seems a real fixation about this 40m value, it seems more about it being a transfer record.  I wished I had used the link of 38m euros which is 32.5m GBP which wouldnt have been a new transfer record.  I never thought the 40m would've been the thing that would've been used as such a noose around this transfer by some.

In fact the reasons being presented are not what I thought would be presented....I didnt think having two top notch strikers would be controversial and that Tammy's abilities were going to be questioned.  I find those two reasons just bizarre.

I actually didnt think this thread was going to be as divided as it is.  There are always some negativity with any thread but there is some real weirdness with some on here with their negativity around this transfer.

[brummybloke]

31 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Completely agree about the draft reasons popping up and also people trying to put words in my mouth that i've never said about why would we put Ollie out wide. 

There also seems a real fixation about this 40m value, it seems more about it being a transfer record.  I wished I had used the link of 38m euros which is 32.5m GBP which wouldnt have been a new transfer record.  I never thought the 40m would've been the thing that would've been used as such a noose around this transfer by some.

In fact the reasons being presented are not what I thought would be presented....I didnt think having two top notch strikers would be controversial and that Tammy's abilities were going to be questioned.  I find those two reasons just bizarre.

I actually didnt think this thread was going to be as divided as it is.  There are always some negativity with any thread but there is some real weirdness with some on here with their negativity around this transfer.

It's because some think we will get a Dwight Yorke type signing for some tracksuits and a Cadbury cream egg or sign some untested foreign striker because they may settle and may be good in the Premier league or they just don't want us to improve our first team full stop.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, allani said:

Can you name one poster who has said that Tammy would be a good signing who has proposed moving Ollie to play on the wing?  Anyone will do.  This keeps coming up again and again and again.  We don't play 4-4-2 and Ollie shouldn't be on the left wing.  Yet not one person who has suggested that signing Tammy would be a good deal has proposed moving Ollie to play on the wing and almost all of us have said it would be 4-2-3-1(ish). 

I HAVE said that if Ollie plays in the CF role than his natural tendency is to drift left and run the channel - the heat map of his involvement last season as shared by @nick76 previously on this thread proves this.  When he drifts left (because he is going to unless we train it out of him - in which case he loses half his effectiveness) then that allows Jack to either try and go wider to overlap or drift inside.  But it also means Tammy can get himself on the centre circle waiting for a cross.  But that is NOTHING like saying that Ollie should be moved to play on the left wing.  There have been several proposals about how Jack, Emi, Ollie and Tammy COULD fit in the same side.  None of them mention 4-4-2 and none of them mention playing Ollie on the left wing.  Yet almost every counter argument says that no-one plays 4-4-2 anymore and we'd be mad to start Ollie down the left.  Which kind of makes it irrelevant as a counter-argument because its arguing against something different to what has been said.  It's a bit like having a discussion about deciding whether to go to Italy on holiday or stay in the UK and people saying that we should stay in the UK because they don't speak French.

If people are going to raise objections to the proposal (which is fine) then please do read and understand what has been suggested before dismissing it.  I've only had one person come back with a detailed counter-argument explaining why they don't think that those 4 would work together.  He raised plenty of good points about his concerns, explained why he thought we needed a different type of player to join that quartet and having read his post I understood why he had those views and why we disagreed with each other.  Which is fine and the whole point of a forum like this.

I am not proposing 4-4-2.....but didn't Harry raise his fingers and mouth 4-4-2 to his players, can't remember if it was against Germany or Ukraine.

and I'm pretty sure , Burnley and Crystal palace still play 4-4-2 .

Edited July 5, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Completely agree about the draft reasons popping up and also people trying to put words in my mouth that i've never said about why would we put Ollie out wide. 

There also seems a real fixation about this 40m value, it seems more about it being a transfer record.  I wished I had used the link of 38m euros which is 32.5m GBP which wouldnt have been a new transfer record.  I never thought the 40m would've been the thing that would've been used as such a noose around this transfer by some.

In fact the reasons being presented are not what I thought would be presented....I didnt think having two top notch strikers would be controversial and that Tammy's abilities were going to be questioned.  I find those two reasons just bizarre.

I actually didnt think this thread was going to be as divided as it is.  There are always some negativity with any thread but there is some real weirdness with some on here with their negativity around this transfer.

some don't fancy Tammy, simple as that.

What I don't get, is the favouring one or the other.....They are both very good players and we need more than 1 striker, in a squad.

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Burnley and Crystal palace still play 4-4-2 .

This is not an argument in favour of playing 442

[Keyblade]

This thread is even worse than the Rashica thread.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

This is not an argument in favour of playing 442

no its not, its an example of some that do.

[Jas10]

It’s fine, Tammy will play a lot more for Chelsea next season:

 

[gwi1890]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

Not really because Tammy has proven he’s a goalscorer in the PL at a top club.  Tammy is also a striker throughout his career, the Traore thing here is a player whose a RW who has played sometimes as a CF but he is a RW.  It’s a chalk and cheese comparison mate.

Tammy has played 3 premier league seasons , 6 in 22 appearances last season, 19/20 15 in 34 , 17/18 5 in 31, if he keeps it up he’ll have similar record to callum wilson only difference is callum wilson Isn’t playing with world class players but Tammy has a way to go yet one good season doesn’t make you proven at PL level, Im not saying Tammy is crap by the way I was just defending one of our own players rather than a Chelsea player and given the the stats shown above 8 goals from RW is pretty good 

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, brummybloke said:

It's because some think we will get a Dwight Yorke type signing for some tracksuits and a Cadbury cream egg or sign some untested foreign striker because they may settle and may be good in the Premier league or they just don't want us to improve our first team full stop.

This is the most believable reason I think. There are those fans on here who like certain players. They like these players so much that they would never see us move on as a club if it meant we got rid or had to get rid of there fav players. If it were upto them Villa would be a graveyard of old talent and we would be a non league team as a result and they would be totally fine with that. I've seen all these signs to much on VT and while it's a nice sentiment it would be the very reason Villa became a nothing club through it.

Upgrades have to be made, it's part of football and it's part of competition. If we dont make these upgrades we won't never climb, in fact we will fall. 

Tammy at villa for most it seems makes perfect sense, but when it arrives to someone challengeing Tammy, instead of saying " well I don't want my favourite striker Watkins to possibly be under threat" we get the whole Tammy is shit reason instead. It's like there is no truth to some people's motives in the way they talk, one thing is said but it's obvious some other reason is hiding beyond what they said.

Now I love Watkins, absolutely think he's Ace, I do wanthimto be Villas no1 but at the same time I realise what he needs and what the squad needs, which is another striker who can compete with Watkins. Watkins shouldn't be Guaranteed starter,he shouldn't be made to feel his place is safe. Watkins should have someone breathing down his neck. It wouldn't hurt one bit if actually Tammy came in and both Watkins and Tammy were changed in starting line ups to add some sense of randomness. Adding Tammy one game and Watkins maybe game later or two games later, then mix it back up certainly would give opposition a good old fashioned guessing game. Tammy and Watkins are around the same level of competition, why do you think Smith were drawn towards Tammy and had him come to Villa and spoke very highly of him always, it's because he sees Watkins in Tammy. Tammy and Watkins may have different strengths and different weaknesses but they are also similar in ways. Tammy and Watkins and the slightly different styles they have would have a fantastic effect during games, it gives Smith and Co options, let's Smith and Co change things up during a game.

I've said it a few times in this thread now, I very much doubt Davis will be good enough if we want to challenge for Europe. Goal scoring will be part of what we need along with all the other parts of a strikers gameplay. It will certainly be like last season,the moment you know Davis is subbed on, you know the game for us is going dead. Now Davis has a good bit to his game that's good, but as a striker he doesn't have goals, we need that for a team pushing for the top of the league. Wesley is a deffo question mark, I so want him to work out but should we really rest a season on maybes or hopes? I'm not sure it's worth it if we have the ability to make changes in this window and kick on.

All in all Tammy would be a welcome addition and upgrade, a massive upgrade on two of our strikers who sit in second and third spot. Not being funny with David and Wesley but if we have to go into next season with them, I'd sooner Smith just bring Youth on in to partner Watkins as I feel more confident with the likes of Barry And Brad Young getting some minutes.

[brummybloke]

7 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Tammy has played 3 premier league seasons , 6 in 22 appearances last season, 19/20 15 in 34 , 17/18 5 in 31, if he keeps it up he’ll have similar record to callum wilson only difference is callum wilson Isn’t playing with world class players but Tammy has a way to go yet one good season doesn’t make you proven at PL level, Im not saying Tammy is crap by the way I was just defending one of our own players rather than a Chelsea player and given the the stats shown above 8 goals from RW is pretty good 

World class talent? Neither was a 19 year old tammy at Swansea in the stats you've put up.

Ignoring the 52 goals in 85 appearances in the Championship as an 18 year old and 20 year old, he stepped up and was chelseas top scorer the next year. Last year the top scorer in the league got 7 goals and played double the amount of minutes and took penalties. Tammy's 6 goals came in 1040 minutes, so the equivalent of 11 1/2 games so a goal every other game.

And that's in a Chelsea team who didn't score a massive amount of goals and had 16 different goal scorers. 

As I say, I'm not sure who else we can get who is available and fits our criteria who can score goals regularly.

[gwi1890]

Just now, brummybloke said:

World class talent? Neither was a 19 year old tammy at Swansea in the stats you've put up.

Ignoring the 52 goals in 85 appearances in the Championship as an 18 year old and 20 year old, he stepped up and was chelseas top scorer the next year. Last year the top scorer in the league got 7 goals and played double the amount of minutes and took penalties. Tammy's 6 goals came in 1040 minutes, so the equivalent of 11 1/2 games so a goal every other game.

And that's in a Chelsea team who didn't score a massive amount of goals and had 16 different goal scorers. 

As I say, I'm not sure who else we can get who is available and fits our criteria who can score goals regularly.

It was seemingly ok to dismiss goals Traore scored in everdivise and ligue 1 , I have also previously said that I have no issue with us signing him, but people make him out to be the messiah for crying out loud

[Kiwivillan]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

They literally signed Diogo Jota for £40m to do what you are saying they dont.  Does Jota rotate with those players? of course

Are you literally trying to punk me now?

It was my last post before falling asleep. I remembered after posting Firmino played limited minutes last season compared to previous but couldn't think off top of my head who they signed and rather than edit just went to sleep. 

Having a look at league winning season of the front 3 Mane played least 2756 mins. Only Watkins played more minutes last season of our front 3 options. They won league with barely any rotation while playing cups and winning CL.

Jota is first decent front 3 backup signing they've made in ages

Edited July 5, 2021 by Kiwivillan

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

This thread is even worse than the Rashica thread.

You're going to have to let it go.