allani Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: No team during a season shuffles between 442 443 343 532. Present examples. Most managers have a favourite formation they rarely deviate from bar late game to protect lead or switching slightly due to injuries. Errr....England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, blunther said: That's great, until he gets injured. It doesn't have to be his body giving up, we're one bad tackle away from having no Ollie for a year or more. We should know only too well after what happened to Wes. We've been here before. You can say that about Salah Kane Mane Fernandes blah blah blah blah. We need to sign players that can cover more than just striker than a 40m Tammy just in case Watkins gets injured. Besides that have posted many times Traore has 38 goals 11 assists from 71 games at CF from games for Chelsea Vitesse Ajax Lyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunther Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said: You can say that about Salah Kane Mane Fernandes blah blah blah blah. We need to sign players that can cover more than just striker than a 40m Tammy just in case Watkins gets injured. Besides that have posted many times Traore has 38 goals 11 assists from 71 games at CF from games for Chelsea Vitesse Ajax Lyon I'm not saying we should get Tammy or it's a unique situation, but I always find it a bit odd when people talk about a player's history of not having injuries; it means nothing if Ben Mee gets hold of them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, allani said: Errr....England. Err tournament different from league season with best players from country available and they haven't varied the systems that drastically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, blunther said: That's great, until he gets injured. It doesn't have to be his body giving up, we're one bad tackle away from having no Ollie for a year or more. We should know only too well after what happened to Wes. We've been here before. But that scenario is so extremely unlikely. You don't overspend and play around unlikeliness. That's bad business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Watkins has done so with Brentford with more games. The kid is just outrageously fit. Zero injury record. These things with players is mostly down to genetics. Some players are simply more injury prone than others and it isn't a coincidence. We're not even in Europe, will mostly play a game a week. I don't see this as an issue, at all. Splashing 50M on a player because Watkins might get a highly unlikely injury doesn't make sense. We should focus elsewhere. Like a proper DM. Watkins looked knackered at parts of the second half of the season and he also had two big scoring droughts Zero injury past doesnt mean zero record going forwards Some injuries are down to genetics, some injuries are down to getting injuries. Wes' injury was nothing to do with genetics was it. We're not in Europe? to try and get in Europe you have to have the tools to get there or you are just waiting for all the stars to align and a lot of luck in a one off season to get there. More chance of getting a European place if you act like it than hoping for it with a team not good enough. It's not 50m, that number has never been mentioned I would love a proper DM but when we already have McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey and Sanson already for two midfielder positions (assuming we get a CAM in) then it seems unlikely, even though none of them are proper DM's at all, that we are going to get in a DM. Great if we are but then it assumes we will be letting go of one or two of those four people and they will pay for the DM themselves. Sanson isnt going anywhere as we've just brought him, Ramsey at worst will go on loan so if we sell McGinn or Luiz, that money can be used to by a DM. I doubt very much we'll buy a DM and keep all four of those. In all honesty unless we sell a those players first we arent going to get a DM as we arent going to have 5 players for 2 positions....then you argue that we have one player for a striker position and four currently for two midfield positions, then it seems obvious that a striker is a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Just now, villalad21 said: But that scenario is so extremely unlikely. You don't overspend and play around unlikeliness. That's bad business. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: But that scenario is so extremely unlikely. You don't overspend and play around unlikeliness. That's bad business. but that is one of many reasons not just the only reason. All the reasons added together means getting Tammy in is great business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Watkins has done so with Brentford with more games. The kid is just outrageously fit. Zero injury record. These things with players is mostly down to genetics. Some players are simply more injury prone than others and it isn't a coincidence. We're not even in Europe, will mostly play a game a week. I don't see this as an issue, at all. Splashing 50M on a player because Watkins might get a highly unlikely injury doesn't make sense. We should focus elsewhere. Like a proper DM. Absolute garbage all it takes is a Ben Mee tackle and Ollie is out for 12 months! Whilst i'm not advocating spending 50 mil we need a decent alternative option other that Wesley and KD. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, nick76 said: but that is one of many reasons not just the only reason. All the reasons added together means getting Tammy in is great business. Multiple posters have given several reasons why getting Tammy is bad business but you don't agree with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: Watkins looked knackered at parts of the second half of the season and he also had two big scoring droughts Zero injury past doesnt mean zero record going forwards Some injuries are down to genetics, some injuries are down to getting injuries. Wes' injury was nothing to do with genetics was it. We're not in Europe? to try and get in Europe you have to have the tools to get there or you are just waiting for all the stars to align and a lot of luck in a one off season to get there. More chance of getting a European place if you act like it than hoping for it with a team not good enough. It's not 50m, that number has never been mentioned I would love a proper DM but when we already have McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey and Sanson already for two midfielder positions (assuming we get a CAM in) then it seems unlikely, even though none of them are proper DM's at all, that we are going to get in a DM. Great if we are but then it assumes we will be letting go of one or two of those four people and they will pay for the DM themselves. Sanson isnt going anywhere as we've just brought him, Ramsey at worst will go on loan so if we sell McGinn or Luiz, that money can be used to by a DM. I doubt very much we'll buy a DM and keep all four of those. In all honesty unless we sell a those players first we arent going to get a DM as we arent going to have 5 players for 2 positions....then you argue that we have one player for a striker position and four currently for two midfield positions, then it seems obvious that a striker is a priority. Let's agree to disagree buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: No team during a season shuffles between 442 443 343 532. Present examples. Most managers have a favourite formation they rarely deviate from bar late game to protect lead or switching slightly due to injuries. I think you have taken me out of context....I am not suggesting that at all...merely suggesting other formations....not during a game. I am saying other systems/formations can be sought for the season.....but having said that you must have seen Harry Kane indicate 4-4-2 with his fingers, during a game, in the Euro's....Games morph anyway, why the hang up on formations....they are just starting positions. Edited July 5, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Absolute garbage all it takes is a Ben Mee tackle and Ollie is out for 12 months! Whilst i'm not advocating spending 50 mil we need a decent alternative option other that Wesley and KD. Majority of teams in the league including some big clubs have several players they can't properly cover if injured. That's why myself and others aren't averse to striker cover but would rather one that a) covered several positions b) wasn't reported 40m valuation c) wouldn't demand starting every week so links like Alvarez far more appealing than Tammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Multiple posters have given several reasons why getting Tammy is bad business but you don't agree with them but its not just him.....I disagree too. I think it is good business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: We need to sign players that can cover more than just striker Why do we? most players when they go to another club only really every play one position. literally Mane, Firminio and Salah have played the same position at Liverpool for years 6 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Besides that have posted many times Traore has 38 goals 11 assists from 71 games at CF from games for Chelsea Vitesse Ajax Lyon Great most of them in the Dutch league and then some 3 or 4 years ago at Lyon when played out of position...great! woohoo! I'm sure if he had been available as a striker we would've brought him Amazes me that somebody mentions playing Ollie out of position and the earth is scorned but playing Traore out of position is fine. I'm not advocating playing Ollie out of position but I'm also not interested playing Traore out of position...he's not a striker and some stats primarily from 6/7 years ago in a Dutch league followed by only some minutes in the French league isnt going to convince me. We have to stop being amateurish and understand that having two top quality strikers for a European place challenging team is not unreasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Multiple posters have given several reasons why getting Tammy is bad business but you don't agree with them yeah I've (and many others) given detailed responses (and mocked for it) why I didnt agree with their reasoning point by point in a reasonable manner. The main reasons given is we dont need two strikers, and we dont have the budget or isnt a priority....which i've detailed many reasons and many times as have many others posters why that is wrong. Just as you disagree with me and give me reasons. We are having a circular argument but we are both still here and likely to both keep saying the same arguments. Edited July 5, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, nick76 said: ...he's not a striker and some stats primarily from 6/7 years ago in a Dutch league followed by only some minutes in the French league Look up his stats per season at CF and post them rather than inventing his history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Majority of teams in the league including some big clubs have several players they can't properly cover if injured. That's why myself and others aren't averse to striker cover but would rather one that a) covered several positions b) wasn't reported 40m valuation c) wouldn't demand starting every week so links like Alvarez far more appealing than Tammy so your a and b would just get a waste of money in because you want quality but not prepared to pay the price. Alvarez has already been discussed in the last few pages so I wont say my points again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Smith has categorically said he's not moving Watkins to the side of a front 3. Our front 3 will be Grealish Watkins Buendia most likely. Where does Tammy fit in that. Smith could play Traore in front 3 and Buendia 10 but unlikely. Guessing Traore impact sub. Still where does Tammy fit when Smith has said Watkins is leading the line and not getting played wide like he did for Brentford. I have alreay explained in an earlier post. Then we will just have to see won't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Look up his stats per season at CF and post them rather than inventing his history I have just before I posted....18 of those goals were 6-7 years ago in the dutch league at Vitesse....woohoo! Edited July 5, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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