TomC Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 18/10/2021 at 14:03, TrentVilla said: Teams will analyse out stet pieces and will reduce their effectiveness, we have to start creating more chances in open play. Agreed, but if Buendia keeps playing like he did on Saturday, we will have more chances. Not to mention that Bailey will create chances too. How much time have those two played together this year? 12 minutes against Watford. That's it. The best is yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 31 minutes ago, TomC said: I disagree entirely. Does Man City put the same 11 on the pitch every week? No. You have to adjust tactics based on the other team. You have to rotate to give players a rest. That's the advantage of a deep squad. Yes - but Man City can swap out like for like ability wise. We can't - swapping Nkamba for Luiz is a downgrade for example. As is Ramsey for Buendia. We are factoring in players getting tired before they do. Resting your better players because they might get injured isn't far off the players actually being injured in terms of the quality on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Bloody hell mate, had a bad day? I'll answer the first one. Players can be coached to stop making such basic errors, this has always been in a few players games. Concentration. mentality!! Chelsea under Lampard and Chelsea under Tuchel in terms of mentality are 2 different teams. You are spot on. We cannot ignore the soft underbelly, we've seen it too many times and it never seem to go away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Chelsea under Lampard and Chelsea under Tuchel in terms of mentality are 2 different teams. You are spot on. We cannot ignore the soft underbelly, we've seen it too many times and it never seem to go away. Watkin's booting it up in the air trying to clear it, lead to a goal. he is more than capable of clearing a ball. Be a little bit calmer, there was plenty of time, an kick it up the field. Surely Smith has told Ming's about the errors he keeps making. he's trying to be to smart, he has the ability, is he listening or is he just not that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, TomC said: You have to adjust tactics based on the other team. That would be a nice thing to see from Villa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Watkin's booting it up in the air trying to clear it, lead to a goal. he is more than capable of clearing a ball. Be a little bit calmer, there was plenty of time, an kick it up the field. Surely Smith has told Ming's about the errors he keeps making. he's trying to be to smart, he has the ability, is he listening or is he just not that good? We looked a lot better last season in a back 4. Also cannot ignore JT leaving. Massive figure in the dressing room and an idol for the defenders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, villalad21 said: We looked a lot better last season in a back 4. Also cannot ignore JT leaving. Massive figure in the dressing room and an idol for the defenders. I agree with JT leaving, a couple have improved, but can you really say there has been any improvement in Ming's game. Same basic errors time and time again, many leading to opposition goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) I would love to know if the 3:5:2 was something Dean was actually planning before the season started or was it something he was forced into due to injuries, fitness, covid, lack of preseason games? Part of me thinks that signing Ings and Axel was purely to be able to use that formation and improve our ball retention. Another part thinks why sign Bailey, Buendia on top of Traore (and Anwar) if we are just going to leave most of them on the bench. Another part of me thinks he was forced into using that formation, saw us play ok in a few games and beat Man Utd then decide to stick with it despite not actually needing to. I would have praised him had he changed it vs Spurs and Wolves, lauding him as the tactical genius some claim him to be. I really hope when Bailey returns Dean bins the 3:5:2 and drops Watkins, but the third and final part of me thinks he will just stubbornly stick with it vs Arsenal and we will get our Arse (senal) handed to us. An unseen secret part of me really likes dressing as an orange and frightening pensioners. Edited October 19, 2021 by VillanousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, hippo said: If the head coach can't coach players to minimise errors - and he has no bearing on whether those errors occur or not ....why is he there ? Not a dig at DS especially - but getting the team to perform is why he (or any other coach) is there. I think unless you have VVD who is world class at our level you need quality players but may have an issue. Mings is quality 95% of the time but we know he has a big error in him occasionally and at our level you have to put up with that and through coaching try and minimise it but it’s going to appear occasionally. At our level you either have that or have a player who isn’t as quality but more consistent. I think Smith has history of Improving players and we can argue how much credit Smith gets vs the player but Grealish’s stats of assists and goals improved dramatically from low stats to a player whose end product increased massively for example. I think you can argue a lot of players in our squad are the same who have improved under Smith. I know some people won’t agree but that’s my view anyway. Edited October 19, 2021 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, VillanousOne said: I would love to know if the 3:5:2 was something Dean was actually planning before the season started or was it something he was forced into due to injuries, fitness, covid, lack of preseason games? Part of me thinks that signing Ings and Axel was purely to be able to use that formation and improve our ball retention. Another part thinks why sign Bailey, Buendia on top of Traore (and Anwar) if we are just going to leave most of them on the bench. Another part of me thinks he was forced into using that formation, saw us play ok in a few games and beat Man Utd then decide to stick with it despite not actually needing to. I would have praised him had he changed it vs Spurs and Wolves, lauding him as the tactical genius some laud him as. I really hope when Bailey returns Dean bins the 3:5:2 and drops Watkins, but the third and final part of me thinks he will just stubbornly stick with it vs Arsenal and we will get our Arse (senal) handed to us. I think it’s a mix of all of it. Injuries led him to 352 until the attacking injuries calmed down but when it worked he thought he may have stumbled onto something but I think he’s always going to go back to 433 when Bailey gets back. I think the extended run on 352 has just given him ideas of what works and what doesn’t for future reference and options for us. I’m probably wrong but it sort of makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, VillanousOne said: I would love to know if the 3:5:2 was something Dean was actually planning before the season started or was it something he was forced into due to injuries, fitness, covid, lack of preseason games? Part of me thinks that signing Ings and Axel was purely to be able to use that formation and improve our ball retention. Another part thinks why sign Bailey, Buendia on top of Traore (and Anwar) if we are just going to leave most of them on the bench. Another part of me thinks he was forced into using that formation, saw us play ok in a few games and beat Man Utd then decide to stick with it despite not actually needing to. I would have praised him had he changed it vs Spurs and Wolves, lauding him as the tactical genius some laud him as. I really hope when Bailey returns Dean bins the 3:5:2 and drops Watkins, but the third and final part of me thinks he will just stubbornly stick with it vs Arsenal and we will get our Arse (senal) handed to us. An unseen secret part of me really likes dressing as an orange and frightening pensioners. I think 3-5-2 is a direct result of the Ings signing. I don't agree with the idea that we are playing it only because Bailey is injured. Buendia can play wide. Bidace can play wide. El Ghazi can. Even Archer and Watkins can fill in if there is an unprecedented amount of injuries. We almost got a record number of clean sheets last season playing 4 at the back. Mings and Konsa looking like one of the greatest centre back pairings in the division. Why you would change that is a mad one for me. I mean I understand why he is doing it. It's blatantly obvious but it's a stupid one imo. Edited October 19, 2021 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Buendia can play wide. Bidace can play wide. El Ghazi can. Even Archer and Watkins can fill in if there is an unprecedented amount of injuries. Watkins played out wide when Deano managed him at Brentford. It was Frank that moved Watkins into the striker role EDIT: I meant to add that I agree, it is Ings and not injuries that has us playing 5 at the back Edited October 19, 2021 by Peter Griffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Watkins played out wide when Deano managed him at Brentford. It was Frank that moved Watkins into the striker role EDIT: I meant to add that I agree, it is Ings and not injuries that has us playing 5 at the back Yeah but imo Watkins should only play there if we have got no other options. I fully accept that plenty of people will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 57 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Players can be coached to stop making such basic errors, this has always been in a few players games. Concentration. mentality!! You can put lipstick on a pig... Mings will always have brain farts and Tuanzebe is a mediocre CB and I don't see much room for improvement. You get what you pay for or in some cases overpay (see Maguire) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, villalad21 said: Yeah but imo Watkins should only play there if we have got no other options. I fully accept that plenty of people will disagree. I am sort of in agreement with you, that would be my initial thinking. But, I don't think I have ever seen him play out wide and I would be very interested to see what he is like. It would be good use of a cup game to stick Ings up front with Bailey and Ollie out wide and Buendia sitting in between then all pulling the strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, TomC said: Agreed, but if Buendia keeps playing like he did on Saturday, we will have more chances. Not to mention that Bailey will create chances too. How much time have those two played together this year? 12 minutes against Watford. That's it. The best is yet to come. Exactly. The two main creative players who we are relying on to replace what Jack did. And some don't seem willing to have any patience to see if it can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I am sort of in agreement with you, that would be my initial thinking. But, I don't think I have ever seen him play out wide and I would be very interested to see what he is like. It would be good use of a cup game to stick Ings up front with Bailey and Ollie out wide and Buendia sitting in between then all pulling the strings He doesn’t have to play out wide in a 433. Last season the Villa both Jack and Traore played wide but this season we can play like the Liverpool 433 where him and Bailey play either side of Ings far more centrally mostly. Watkins generally drifts a lot left anyway which I believed was supported by his heat maps last season so wouldn’t be much of adjustment. So it’s not wide it’s just left of centre whereas Jack was hugging the left side. Edited October 19, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, nick76 said: He doesn’t have to play out wide in a 433. Last season the Villa both Jack and Traore played wide but this season we can play like the Liverpool 433 where him and Bailey play either side of Ings far more centrally mostly. Watkins generally drifts a lot left anyway which I believed was supported by his heat maps last season so wouldn’t be much of adjustment. So it’s not wide it’s just left of centre whereas Jack was hugging the left side. I agree with that. My comment was more about that I would just like to see Ollie play properly out wide for a game to see what he is like. He could be shyte but he could be amazing. If he played out wide and was crap it would at least close off an open question I have. And if he was brilliant it would give Deano major selection headache but massive strength for us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I agree with that. My comment was more about that I would just like to see Ollie play properly out wide for a game to see what he is like. He could be shyte but he could be amazing. If he played out wide and was crap it would at least close off an open question I have. And if he was brilliant it would give Deano major selection headache but massive strength for us I remember a few people suggesting Ollie could play wide and the smug patronising responses claiming there is no way he should ever be played as a wide forward as if he did the universe would end, some of the same voices also claiming we don't need more than one fit striker because Ollie is never injured... and we'll never sign Abraham because of this and because we'll NEVER EVER play two strikers! then we signed Ings then Ollie got injured then we started playing two strikers so i expect Ollie to be played wide at some point to finish those top notch arrogant predictions off Edited October 19, 2021 by VillanousOne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, VillanousOne said: I remember a few people suggesting Ollie could play wide and the smug patronising responses claiming there is no way he should ever been played as a wide forward, some of the same voices claiming we don't need more than two strikers because Ollie is never injured... I know nothing about what he is like out wide but he he is 25 now and Deano has been with us for 3 years so he was 22 when Deano left. I know he always played out wide under Deano and Frank changed him to up front. When he moved him to the ST role I do not know. But he has lots of experience as a wide man so I would like to see what he is like out wide. I think he could be a very good utility man up front switching between ST and wide man. I may be unfair to him with this but I don't see Ollie ever being a 20+ goal PL striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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