Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TrentVilla]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Exactly. And we're still overperforming statistically.

McGinn's goal vs Watford, Ings vs Newcastle as examples were goals out of relatively nowhere.

 

Which is obviously great, that's why you buy players like Ings. But it isn't sustainable.

Yep and add to that pens, it isn’t sustainable.

I long gave Bruce pelters even when he was winning games and “successful” because I said it wasn’t sustainable and so it proved. His entire approach was entirely dependant upon player individual brilliance.

Now I’m not for one minute comparing Bruce and Smith, they are miles apart but there is a valid point to be made.

Smith throughout his tenure has shown himself to be a far superior coach to Bruce but he has also in every season struggled without Grealish. That is a massive concern to me and has been for some time.

So far this season we’ve struggled to create and to an extent that was to be expected post Grealish. People will also point to player absence and again it is a valid point, to a degree.

However people need to be more objective and look at how we are playing, the lack of a coherent system, of effective patterns of play and that isn’t creating chances.

It isn’t possible to sustain a top 10 place with the chances we are creating over a season or even half a season. Sure you will get statistical freaks like Newcastle that season under Pardew but it never lasts.

Teams will analyse out stet pieces and will reduce their effectiveness, we have to start creating more chances in open play.

I don’t think we’ve really played well yet this season, we had a purple patch against Everton where Bailey changed things so perhaps that is a taste of things to come but we were terrible first half. We were playing a weak Everton side as well if people want to talk about injuries.

I think we look every bit a mid table side so far and I think progress this season looks unlikely. That is worrying come the summer when it comes to retaining players and I think it could be a problem for Smith.

We all know what he has achieved so far, it doesn’t need trotting out every time people question the present or future. In football the past is rarely a factor in peoples futures.

Things need to improve or they will get worse because as you say the current way isn’t sustainable.

I personally feel Smith is going to come under a lot of pressure this season. I think it is something like 7 wins in 21 since New Year, that should alarm everyone.

[villabromsgrove]

Very good post Trent.

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Very good post Trent.

Thanks, won’t prove popular I’m sure which is why I largely stay quiet these days but occasionally I pop my head up.

[Peter Griffin]

15 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Thanks, won’t prove popular I’m sure which is why I largely stay quiet these days but occasionally I pop my head up.

you should repost it on the Dean Smith thread 

[Peter Griffin]

3 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

not once did I see Targett make good use of the ball

It is quite amazing how much having Jack playing ahead of him made him look like such a better player. I didn't realise it at the time but without Jack on the left wing Targett looks like a 5m LB instead of a 25m LB looking for an England call up

[KMitch]

Individual errors almost relegated us in 19-20.  They all pretty much went away with the fans after Project Restart & throughout the 20-21 season.  Now the fans return and the individual mistakes are starting to pile up again...  It's almost as if our squad plays better behind closed doors.  

[onmeedson]

One of my first thoughts after the game was our back line look like we never train together and I know with the internationals we always look bereft around the 70-80 mins, but seeing Dean and the set piece coach after the game both looking totally glum the thought entered my head was have we been putting to much training into set pieces and not enough passing the ball to one another and defending under pressure. We need all the elements of the game to improve and the mental toughness is part and parcel of it, but today it may have gone out of fashion.

[TrentVilla]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

you should repost it on the Dean Smith thread 

I’ve banned myself from that and the Mings thread!

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

I’ve banned myself from that and the Mings thread!

Ah, we are aligned in out thoughts I suspect

[Woody1000]

24 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Thanks, won’t prove popular I’m sure which is why I largely stay quiet these days but occasionally I pop my head up.

 

49 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yep and add to that pens, it isn’t sustainable.

I long gave Bruce pelters even when he was winning games and “successful” because I said it wasn’t sustainable and so it proved. His entire approach was entirely dependant upon player individual brilliance.

Now I’m not for one minute comparing Bruce and Smith, they are miles apart but there is a valid point to be made.

Smith throughout his tenure has shown himself to be a far superior coach to Bruce but he has also in every season struggled without Grealish. That is a massive concern to me and has been for some time.

So far this season we’ve struggled to create and to an extent that was to be expected post Grealish. People will also point to player absence and again it is a valid point, to a degree.

However people need to be more objective and look at how we are playing, the lack of a coherent system, of effective patterns of play and that isn’t creating chances.

It isn’t possible to sustain a top 10 place with the chances we are creating over a season or even half a season. Sure you will get statistical freaks like Newcastle that season under Pardew but it never lasts.

Teams will analyse out stet pieces and will reduce their effectiveness, we have to start creating more chances in open play.

I don’t think we’ve really played well yet this season, we had a purple patch against Everton where Bailey changed things so perhaps that is a taste of things to come but we were terrible first half. We were playing a weak Everton side as well if people want to talk about injuries.

I think we look every bit a mid table side so far and I think progress this season looks unlikely. That is worrying come the summer when it comes to retaining players and I think it could be a problem for Smith.

We all know what he has achieved so far, it doesn’t need trotting out every time people question the present or future. In football the past is rarely a factor in peoples futures.

Things need to improve or they will get worse because as you say the current way isn’t sustainable.

I personally feel Smith is going to come under a lot of pressure this season. I think it is something like 7 wins in 21 since New Year, that should alarm everyone.

Some very valid points there Trent, as usual.

Perhaps more through optimism than anything else I’m holding onto the fact that we’ve not had a fully fit squad and that things will start to improve once we’ve got everyone available.

[KMitch]

23 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Thanks, won’t prove popular I’m sure which is why I largely stay quiet these days but occasionally I pop my head up.

I don't agree with some of what you said, but I always love reading your posts, Trent.  They're always well thought out and you bring a lot of nuance to the discussion.  

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

 

Some very valid points there Trent, as usual.

Perhaps more through optimism than anything else I’m holding onto the fact that we’ve not had a fully fit squad and that things will start to improve once we’ve got everyone available.

And players availability could well be the catalyst for improvement, I accept that. Although I then return to my other observation, I don’t see how all the pieces fit. I think we improved the squad but not the team but that is a whole other discussion.

I’m generally very pragmatic, people will view me as positive or negative depending upon their personal position I guess. I just try and be analytical about it and while I think the use of stats in football has got a little silly we clearly currently have issues.

I hope as always that Smith finds a solution.

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, KMitch said:

I don't agree with some of what you said, but I always love reading your posts, Trent.  They're always well thought out and you bring a lot of nuance to the discussion.  

Thank you, appreciate that. I don’t expect all to agree or even anyone to agree with everything I say, football is a game we all love but see very differently.

I just rarely think anything is as black and white as it ends up being distilled down to when you end up with two factions. 

It is a funny old game as a legend used to say.

[Woody1000]

33 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

And players availability could well be the catalyst for improvement, I accept that. Although I then return to my other observation, I don’t see how all the pieces fit. I think we improved the squad but not the team but that is a whole other discussion.

I’m generally very pragmatic, people will view me as positive or negative depending upon their personal position I guess. I just try and be analytical about it and while I think the use of stats in football has got a little silly we clearly currently have issues.

I hope as always that Smith finds a solution.

I personally think the big issues with the current lineup are the formation and the Watkins/Ings ‘partnership’ which clearly isn’t working, and it seems from the outside looking in that it’s being persisted with simply because Dean is reluctant to ‘drop’ either. I feel that is also why Dean is persisting with 3-5-2 as a way of playing them both without weakening the midfield. Just my opinion though.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Woody1000

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, KMitch said:

Individual errors almost relegated us in 19-20.  They all pretty much went away with the fans after Project Restart & throughout the 20-21 season.  Now the fans return and the individual mistakes are starting to pile up again...  It's almost as if our squad plays better behind closed doors.  

It did feel like the nervous energy of nearly 40k  Villa fans seemed to be shared by the players.  We would have won that game last season. It’s a strange one.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I just mentioned in the Mings thread how both him and Konsa seemed to be asked to support the full back in trying to get them in to a crossing position. Neither of them seem comfortable at all.

We need to go back to 4-3-3. 

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Thanks, won’t prove popular I’m sure which is why I largely stay quiet these days but occasionally I pop my head up.

It's posts like that I log on to Villa Talk for, so please keep 'em coming!

One good thing with DS and the formations that make me keep faith is that he seems to see the same things as many of us and tends to change when it doesn't go well. For example the experiment with three at the back at Christmas two seasons ago, something needed to be done to make us more solid, he tried three at the back, we became too static (as often is the case with three at the back imo) and he abandonned that after a couple of games. During the corona break he came up with other ways of keeping tight even in the 4-3-3. The season after he swithed to more of a 4-2-3-1 to make us more solid and to fit Barkley into the system. When Barkley didn't perform he adjusted it again. This season he tries his best to accomodate Ings in the team. I'm a bit surprised he hasn't adjusted yet, but I'm quite confident we wont see this formation when Bailey and Traoré are fully fit and can start on each wing. He could already now have switched to a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 with Watkins and AEG on the wings though. All in all, I had tought he would have abanndoned this fomration earlier, but I'm positive he will find the best formation soon.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Keener window-cleaner

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think when and if we can finally see this team and shape with the odd alterations in personnel we’ll be fine. 
 

                Emi

cash Konsa Mings Targett 

   Mcginn  Luiz Sanson 

Beundia. Ings/Watkins  Bailey 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[Keener window-cleaner]

31 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

I personally think the big issues with the current lineup are the formation and the Watkins/Ings ‘partnership’ which clearly isn’t working, and it seems from the outside looking in that it’s being persisted with simply because Dean is reluctant to ‘drop’ either. I feel that is also why Dean is persisting with 3-5-2 as a way of playing them both without weakening the midfield. Just my opinion though.

Fully agree, with the two of them we have one less creator in the team, and they don't create for each other. The other problem is the three at the back, it means we only have one player on each wing, and now that is two full backs who more or less just whipps in 50/50-balls. Compare that to last season when we on the wing had Jack an Traoré providing quality passes and the full backs overlapping. Now we have reverted to just early crosses from the wing that are easy to deal with.

Three at the back also means one less creative player. Add to that three grafters in the middle and we have no quality to create chances what so ever. Replacing Ramsey with Buendia was a step in the right direction, and Buendia did create some quality chances, but it's not enough, we need at least three quality creators in the team, one on each wing and one in the middle.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think when and if we can finally see this team and shape with the odd alterations in personnel we’ll be fine. 
 

                Emi

cash Konsa Mings Targett 

   Mcginn  Luiz Sanson 

Beundia. Mings/Watkins  Bailey 

Like that team. 

Still not sure on Sanson though. We've not seen him a lot really.