HanoiVillan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: There was more to your point than this so this isn’t disagreement in general, but: there isn’t a striker in football who does the harrying Watkins does. Lol, true that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: Vardy is what 33 now. And Ihaenacho has been on fire but they also seem to now be playing 2 strikers so edouard should get plenty of minutes. Yes Rodgers tweaked it in last few months to a 3-5-2 with two out and out strikers in. It's something I think we should use more as plan B, Fulham for last 20 minutes when Davis came on and totally unsettled them playing just off Ollie is textbook example. Only game we won all season from losing position in second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: That's a stupid justification. He didn't play up front because he was our lone RW and the only time we changed the formation was after the Fulham game. At which point he was typically coming off first. Justification of...? Speaking of stupid justifications though, he's been substituted first in a single game post Fulham which was in the 88th minute in a game we were already leading in so...yeah. As I say, zero minutes at striker over the course of an entire season despite his "excellent" track record in the position and other players aside from Watkins playing there doesn't speak much for Smith's intention to use him there. Even if your incorrect recollections of his use of substitutions can apparently explain why that's a misplaced assumption I think I'll stick with thinking we'll more than likely see another striker come in before Traore is used as a #9. Edited May 24, 2021 by Indigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Indigo said: Justification of...? Speaking of stupid justifications though, he's been substituted first in a single game post Fulham which was in the 88th minute in a game we were already leading in so...yeah. As I say, zero minutes at striker over the course of an entire season despite his "excellent" track record in the position and other players aside from Watkins playing there doesn't speak much for Smith's intention to use him there. Even if your incorrect recollections of his use of substitutions can apparently explain why that's a misplaced assumption I think I'll stick with thinking we'll more than likely see another striker come in before Traore is used as a #9. He's been subbed 7 times since the Fulham game. Maybe you are right about him not being the first. But I meant the first winger (sorry I didn't say that - it's normally him or anwar and since the Liverpool game we haven't had a winger sub), a has been subbed 3 times traore 4 times and Traore was subbed first in the Chelsea game, the Palace game, the Everton game and the Everton game. Whereas el ghazi has been subbed first between them in the game traore wasn't subbed. He hasn't played upfront because the onyl attacking options off our bench are 2 strikers and AMs. So none can really fully replace him outwide and normally is only subbed if we are going to just go hoofball and chuck on Davis and Wesley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Ok, so how about some suggestions for strikers then? Including an estimation of how much they would cost? Whether young with high potential or experienced pros who wouldn’t cost too much… I’m certainly not averse to bringing one in but do think we should let someone go (Davis) in that case. Again, my concern is the transfer budget. I don’t think it would be wise to spend £40m+ on Tammy unless we somehow would still have at least £80m+ left to spend on other players… I don’t believe we’re at the stage yet, as a squad, where we can have reserves or rotation options that, in every/most positions, are almost as good as the starting players… we still need to spend funds on strengthening that first team and relegate some starters to the bench or send them on their way… It takes time to build a strong squad, can’t be done in a single window… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 The alternative is to sign a top class winger or WF who can excel at CF when required too… spend big on a player that could do that… but who? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: He's been subbed 7 times since the Fulham game. Maybe you are right about him not being the first. But I meant the first winger (sorry I didn't say that - it's normally him or anwar and since the Liverpool game we haven't had a winger sub), a has been subbed 3 times traore 4 times and Traore was subbed first in the Chelsea game, the Palace game, the Everton game and the Everton game. Whereas el ghazi has been subbed first between them in the game traore wasn't subbed. He hasn't played upfront because the onyl attacking options off our bench are 2 strikers and AMs. So none can really fully replace him outwide and normally is only subbed if we are going to just go hoofball and chuck on Davis and Wesley. The sample size is small either way to be fair, but conversely there has been occasions where Davis has been subbed on for a winger while Traore was still on the pitch and Watkins has subsequently pulled wider. The 0-0 vs Wolves is the one that springs to mind where I believe Davis came on for Trez. There isn't much evidence either way but even cases such as these suggest to me that it's not an option being particularly strongly considered given Smith is choosing to forgo Traore's ability to successfully play in the role in favour of bringing on - no offence to him - not exactly a goal machine in Davis and also shift Watkins in the process. I struggle to see how if he were believed to be such a goal threat in that position how there was absolutely no circumstance that saw Smith even attempt to find a way for him to play even a minute there this year, when other solutions when chasing games have involved having 3 strikers on the pitch, Keinan Davis popping up as a right winger etc. Even in general play there's been no examples to my mind of players even briefly interchanging and Traore taking up #9 positions like say El Ghazi has on occasion. I think he's 4th choice at best in that position and highly doubt we'll see him play there for us even if we sign a RW and not another striker because there's no precedence for it happening at Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 We need to be a bit ruthless but without forsaking our integrity too much… There are players that have been with us for a long while, that we’ve been very patient with… We can’t really carry on like that and be overly sentimental, we can’t carry any passengers or have anyone getting game time who cannot be effective or give us enough of a contribution - if we want to seriously become a top 8 or higher team… Davis is just one example. I’ll be glad to see Taylor & Elmo leave - nothing to do with their character etc. but simply because they have little to offer us for the reasons explained above… and such players become a detriment to the side and hold us back (Taylor is the prime example of that). And we’ll need to replace these players with much better… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Just spitballing and trying to estimate… Not claiming these fees or targets to be accurate but… LB - Wijndal - £15m DM - Koopmeiners - £20m CAM - De Arrascaeta - £25m RW - Buendia - £40m (maybe 35?) Ok, so maybe at least £100m there…. maybe we could go with a cheaper option for LB… Hickey? Maybe we could do and spend more… How much could we be left with in our budget? Try to spend the remaining funds on a striker or anywhere else? If Engels leaves, we need a replacement… not sure what sort of fee we would get for him… his value will have dropped with his lack of games… Fine at RB with Cash, Guilbert & Kesler… It’s highly likely we will sell Hourihane and get some added funds (can’t see it being more than a modest fee though). Could we get a decent fee for Davis? A loan out is more likely… So not a lot of (extra) funds coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompedyret Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 I'd like to see Davis have a go as attacking midfielder. Either at us or on loan, if so a place where he gets plenty of playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Mazrim said: I firmly believe we cannot just rely on Watkins. Its madness. I also don't want to have to play 1 striker. Switching to 2 at times, with 4 in the midfield, can help protect leads or give the defence more of a break. It asks different questions of our opponents. With a clever player like Jack behind 2 stikers, one of whom can pull wide, you can move fluidly from 4 3 3 to 4 4 2 and back again. Just an example where getting Tammy, or another striker in, can work. In other areas. Look, I'm delighted with the win and the progress in general. But it annoys me how little we keep the ball and more often than not it will hurt us. NSWE are football savvy. They will be looking at things like that and wondering why we're so tactically stiff, wasteful and surrendering acres of space and possession. We're going to have to address that this summer if we want to improve again. No more accepting the opposition will have more of the ball. It will not enthuse Jack to stay either. He will want to be in a team that uses the ball intelligently, that retains it and gets it to him. Only commenting on the defensive formation part… the answer to a tactical defensive formation in our system is 1, having a new DCM but system wise we simply play with a double pivot and change whoever is playing 10 to play as a 6/8 which is exactly how Liverpool play their midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Jas10 said: McGinn can be so frustrating and yet so delightful at times… He’s great when he charges after players and often nicks the ball - that’s his greatest asset. But, he is often slow and sloppy in possession and loses the ball too easily. His attitude, determination and workrate are excellent and he is a great aid to the side when he’s on top form, but he has been inconsistent and is not that technically gifted… What’s the solution? Time & coaching? Rest/rotation? (his game almost entirely depends on optimum energy and stamina levels) Or should we upgrade and have him on the bench? I wonder if Sanson will take over next season… Play him as an 8/10 only is the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 hours ago, villalad21 said: Abraham isn't happening. We play a one striker system and Ollie is our guy. Think we will sign another winger, a DM, and potentially a right back A left back not right back unless we sell Guilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, paul514 said: Play him as an 8/10 only is the solution. 8 sure, that’s his position. But I don’t think it’s his position that affects his sloppiness on the ball, he hasn’t looked fully fit enough throughout the season and seemed rusty or tired at times. We overplay him too and should sub him off when he tires… He’s been exceptional on the odd occasion also though. But he hasn’t been anywhere near consistent enough… I expect better next season anyway and with, hopefully, some added quality and competition. I expect a lot from Sanson… His most valuable asset is his pressing and ability to knick the ball, a great asset to the team. But he has often been slow in possession and telegraphs most of his passes. He isn't even close to being cut out to be a proper 10 though, does not have the quality. We need someone exceptional there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 34 minutes ago, Gompedyret said: I'd like to see Davis have a go as attacking midfielder. Either at us or on loan, if so a place where he gets plenty of playing time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: And having option to rest Ollie from time to time would be welcome aswell. For instance second half at Man. United on 1st Jan I thought he was massively fatigued, was second to pretty much every 50/50 ball in the second half of that game. We had the 2 week covid outbreak and he came back fresh as a daisy and hit a decent scoring run in late Jan-early Feb. Then sat out the Everton game and played very well at Palace and Spurs. It's DS having the confidence in a back up striker who can come in to start the odd game when we play 7-8 in a month as he certainly hasn't in Davis and Wes still tentatively coming back although possible he'll eventually go back into that row. Tammy dosen't fit that role given he'll want to be nailed on starter and other clubs like West Ham would likely give him that (although judging from the Holte today he'd be a very popular signing for us). However it's vital we get in another striker we can at least throw on with 20-30 minutes left. We'll be wanting better cup runs next season so that's potentially another 5 games to add on to what we played this season. I think that more has to do with Vardy’s football mortality than getting backup for the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Indigo said: Justification of...? Speaking of stupid justifications though, he's been substituted first in a single game post Fulham which was in the 88th minute in a game we were already leading in so...yeah. As I say, zero minutes at striker over the course of an entire season despite his "excellent" track record in the position and other players aside from Watkins playing there doesn't speak much for Smith's intention to use him there. Even if your incorrect recollections of his use of substitutions can apparently explain why that's a misplaced assumption I think I'll stick with thinking we'll more than likely see another striker come in before Traore is used as a #9. The context that Traore is being discussed as a ST though is in an emergency. We haven’t had an emergency this season. If all of Watkins doing 2 ACLs, Wes isn’t up to scratch at all, Davis can’t do the job and Barry can’t fill in from time to time happens, as previously outlined by Smith, Traore can do a job for us there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 We don’t need a striker, what we need is a top class LW or CAM who can also play ST. That gives us literally 5 options in the event Watkins gets kidnapped by Spurs fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jas10 said: RW - Buendia - £40m (maybe 35?) I don't think he's for sale anywhere near that price. It would cost Norwich not staying in PL much more than selling their best player for that. Besides that he'd be a target for most the top of the league teams if they thought Norwich would sell Edited May 24, 2021 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paul514 Posted May 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) My eyes are metaphorically bleeding Reading all this striker talk I’m going to take a few things in turn which are facts, they aren’t debatable. 1. Whatever the budget is, it is finite and we can’t just spend whatever we want. The owners have an amount they are willing to put in and FFP exists. 2. We are not going to play Watkins as a wide forward. You don’t take your best striker for what 7 years? Then ram him out wide after he scores a good amount of goals with what I would consider poor service or at the very least inconsistent service. 3. We will not buy a striker unless one of two things happen. A, Wesleys medical condition is poor and we have no evidence to believe this. B, We are going to spread the budget on a bunch of 15-25m pound players as we did last season. That 3B point in my mind (this is the opinion part) is the only way a new striker comes through the door. As a separate point, people keep saying we don’t have enough strikers…. How many do you want? We have 3 seniors an exceptional youngster and a wide forward who could fill in there as a 5th choice! We don’t even know if when we sign a new wide forward they could also play there. Honesty reading about it over and over is inane. We absolutely HAVE to purchase a left back as we now have one. We absolutely must sign a DCM as we get played through too easily everyone has seen this all season. When we allocate a budget those two positions are first two be signed off. I’d find it amazing if more than just a few people disagreed we need a new high quality wide forward to take the pressure off Grealish, pen teams back into their own half because they are too scared to commit more men forward and to create more chances to score than we do currently. I’d argue we need two. Edited May 24, 2021 by paul514 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts