QldVilla Posted October 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, KentVillan said: It sounds more like he didn’t have concussion (ie brain injury), but had head pain from the impact on his skull, and understandably felt uncomfortable continuing. Did the right thing going off, but sounds like he’s passed all the tests. I don’t think there is such thing as “minor concussion”. It’s always an injury that needs to be taken very seriously because it can have long term consequences. Medical teams grade the concussions in sport and run memory tests based on base questions the sportsperson has undertaken in pre season. This way they can decide what grade the concussion is. For example a Grade 1 is considered minor and a sportsperson could be back on the field 15 minutes later. Grade 2 & 3 wouldn’t see a return to play. Edited October 30, 2022 by QldVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 minute ago, QldVilla said: Medical teams grade the concussions in sport and run memory tests based on base questions the sportsperson has undertaken in pre season. This way they can decide what grade the concussion is. For example a Grade 1 is considered minor and a sportsperson could be back on the filled 15 minutes later. Grade 2 & 3 wouldn’t see a return to play. https://www.aans.org/en/Patients/Neurosurgical-Conditions-and-Treatments/Concussion Quote Even mild concussions should not be taken lightly. Neurosurgeons and other brain injury experts emphasize that although some concussions are less serious than others, there is no such thing as a minor concussion. In most cases, a single concussion should not cause permanent damage. A second concussion soon after the first one does not have to be very strong for its effects to be permanently disabling. This is the issue. Once you’ve got any degree of concussion, it needs to be left to heal. Of course there are sports like boxing where this is probably pushed to the limit, but football isn’t a combat sport, and Newcastle v Villa is not a multimillion dollar world championship fight. Always makes more sense to err on the side of caution, so he can play 100s more games in his career and not suffer from problems in retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted October 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, KentVillan said: https://www.aans.org/en/Patients/Neurosurgical-Conditions-and-Treatments/Concussion This is the issue. Once you’ve got any degree of concussion, it needs to be left to heal. Of course there are sports like boxing where this is probably pushed to the limit, but football isn’t a combat sport, and Newcastle v Villa is not a multimillion dollar world championship fight. Always makes more sense to err on the side of caution, so he can play 100s more games in his career and not suffer from problems in retirement. They use the same protocol in rugby league, rugby union, Aussie rules and football in Australia. They have a doctor on the side lines and they will pull a player off the field and have them assessed in the change rooms, if it’s mild there allowed to continue to play after 15 minutes if a higher grade they don’t come back on and generally sat down for a minimum of 7 days or longer and have to have a medical clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Indigo said: Although there's been improvements I still find the way head injuries are handled in football to be concerning. Love Martinez and always want him on the pitch for Villa, but I'd rather him be healthy and not put at risk in the process. He really should have been off straight away yesterday once it was clear how serious of a knock he had taken rather than being allowed to try to soldier on. Glad to see he's OK. They need to adopt the NFL model. We don't take it seriously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 hours ago, KentVillan said: It sounds more like he didn’t have concussion (ie brain injury), but had head pain from the impact on his skull, and understandably felt uncomfortable continuing. Did the right thing going off, but sounds like he’s passed all the tests. I don’t think there is such thing as “minor concussion”. It’s always an injury that needs to be taken very seriously because it can have long term consequences. I think there is such a thing as a minor, or as more often described, mild concussion. After some research I found this: Signs of a Grade 1 Concussion – Low-Grade, Mild In a grade 1 concussion, you can experience a headache, difficulty focusing, memory loss, dizziness, and nausea. You can usually return to normal activities within a few days following a grade 1 concussion after the symptoms have fully passed. In any case, I think Emi will be following the concussion protocol because the Premier League would be foolish just to take the word of a player or club that a bang to the head, leading to not being able to continue, was merely 'head pain' and not at least a mild concussion. If Emi's concussion was mild as it appears, it's likely each of the tests and steps of the protocol will be passed, in the minimum of 6 days dictated by the protocol, and he'll therefore be available for our next game. None of this decries the seriousness of concussion. Just that with the appropriate tests and protocol steps passed, a mild concussion can be differentiated from a major concussion, enabling some players to return to action before others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 35 minutes ago, brommy said: I think there is such a thing as a minor, or as more often described, mild concussion. After some research I found this: Signs of a Grade 1 Concussion – Low-Grade, Mild In a grade 1 concussion, you can experience a headache, difficulty focusing, memory loss, dizziness, and nausea. You can usually return to normal activities within a few days following a grade 1 concussion after the symptoms have fully passed. In any case, I think Emi will be following the concussion protocol because the Premier League would be foolish just to take the word of a player or club that a bang to the head, leading to not being able to continue, was merely 'head pain' and not at least a mild concussion. If Emi's concussion was mild as it appears, it's likely each of the tests and steps of the protocol will be passed, in the minimum of 6 days dictated by the protocol, and he'll therefore be available for our next game. None of this decries the seriousness of concussion. Just that with the appropriate tests and protocol steps passed, a mild concussion can be differentiated from a major concussion, enabling some players to return to action before others. Yeah I’m sure all the protocols are being followed. Just for reference, though, World Rugby now has a minimum 12 days for most concussions (ie pretty much anything serious enough to merit being taken off). This is because of all the research suggesting that mild (or “minor”) concussions do pose enormous risk if the player takes another knock while it’s still healing. Of course football isn’t rugby, but keeper is the position where the worst head injuries tend to happen (the Exeter keeper was knocked out last week… Petr Cech obviously had a horrendous head injury). We expect keepers to throw themselves at the feet of strikers rushing through on goal, and to catch the ball in goalmouth scrambles, corners, free kicks, contested crosses, etc. So I think beyond the protocols, there’s just the general duty of care. We aren’t privy to exactly what the medical tests have shown, and ultimately it’s the decision of the player, the club, and the medical staff, so not trying to second guess any of that. But *if* there is even a slight risk, I’d be more than happy with Olsen getting another game in net, because surely this next game isn’t important enough in the grand scheme of things? I do also get your point that whatever happened to Emi is not at the extreme end of the scale. He wasn’t knocked out, he wasn’t wobbling around like a boxer in the 12th round. But head injuries are always relatively serious compared with an ankle sprain or whatever, and he took a hell of a blow to the head from Mings. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 hours ago, Pissflaps said: They need to adopt the NFL model. We don't take it seriously I don't think the NFL really are that much better evem after all the lawsuits A player a few weeks back played less than a week after a potential concussion and then was still allowed to play on after getting another dangerous hit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 hours ago, Zatman said: I don't think the NFL really are that much better evem after all the lawsuits A player a few weeks back played less than a week after a potential concussion and then was still allowed to play on after getting another dangerous hit Yes that was the team I support. The independent neurological doctor who assessed the player was fired. A week later all the faults found in the process were corrected and a new protocol was in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Pissflaps said: Yes that was the team I support. The independent neurological doctor who assessed the player was fired. A week later all the faults found in the process were corrected and a new protocol was in place. You talking about Tua and his “back injury?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 21 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: You talking about Tua and his “back injury?” Yup. It caused alot of changes to be made. Ruined my teams season also 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pissflaps said: Yup. It caused alot of changes to be made. Ruined my teams season also I still can’t understand how they justified that first concussion as a back issue. It’s absolutely baffling that they thought people would just accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I actually had a concussion incident happen with the team I coach. One of our CBs got a very nasty knock to the head and went down. Trainers had to come over and was immediately subbed off (there are unlimited subs in the youth level I coach at). Trainer looked over said player and cleared to go back in. Nothing else happened during the game, but then 5 minutes after the game concluded, this player passed out and parents took to the hospital for evaluation. Diagnosed with a concussion and only now getting fully back. I also have a friend who played American football and ended up medically retiring due to multiple concussions. Head injuries are extremely serious, and it really makes my blood boil when people don't take them seriously. They can be life-altering injuries & I still am disappointed with our medical staff. You just can't take any chances today with head injuries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 26 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: I still can’t understand how they justified that first concussion as a back issue. It’s absolutely baffling that they thought people would just accept that. Well the concussion "spotters" didn't have an issue..then the independent doctor did the suite if tests which Tua passed. So he was back in the game. I was watching it live and I immediately said , "oh he has a concussion" so was very surprised to see him back in the second half! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Pissflaps said: Well the concussion "spotters" didn't have an issue..then the independent doctor did the suite if tests which Tua passed. So he was back in the game. I was watching it live and I immediately said , "oh he has a concussion" so was very surprised to see him back in the second half! And then got a 2nd one the week after and all hell broke loose The NFL is right though, it should be an independent 3rd party Dr appointed by the PL who has ultimate say over everyone else In the Tua incident that Dr turned out to be incompetent (with a lot of talk that the questions the Dr's ask can be learned so the player can blag a test and get back out there) but the way they operate is still better than the PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Looking forward seeing how he is getting on with the new gk coach. In particular playing out from the back which I think has been poor under Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 21 hours ago, QldVilla said: they will pull a player off 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Seems to be gutted, perhaps upset with Cutlers exit. Hoping we’ve not alienated our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Seems to be gutted, perhaps upset with Cutlers exit. Hoping we’ve not alienated our best player. He should be professional and respect the new manager wants his own team in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 He's got a security dog? Maybe I'm massively sheltered but I had no idea they were a thing in the UK, enough for a well-known person to flaunt that they have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 4 hours ago, Pinebro said: Looking forward seeing how he is getting on with the new gk coach. In particular playing out from the back which I think has been poor under Cutler. he worked with him at Arsenal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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