The AVFC FFP thread

[blandy]

On 07/11/2018 at 19:36, OutByEaster? said:

The only thing I can think of beyond that is a "jam tomorrow" policy.

"We'd like to buy your CB please Brentford - we'll pay you £5m. That's £1.00 this season, then £10.00 next season, then £999,989.00 the season after, then £4m the season after that." Can we do that sort of thing? Can you stretch payments over a long period to control when your losses happen?

Many transfer payments are spread over a period of time - some now, some later. I think there's a national limit on the time, though - maybe a year for domestic and maybe 3 for international. But the selling club is handicapped if they can't spend the proceeds, because they haven't actually got them yet. It could help them with tax, but basically I think the options are quite limited in practice, because of rules about 50% up front, then the rest within X months, and the selling club wanting funds in. None of that is certain, just vague memory.

[Vive_La_Villa]

21 hours ago, romavillan said:

They might be calling shenanigans on some Xia related mortgaging of future revenue, or other dodginess, as exceptional? I have no idea but Purslow is either flat out the best liar in history or I read him wrong in that interview. He seemed convinced that FFP wasn't an issue. He could be the next Trump I spose but the exceptional thing is the only way I can see from the rules you posted anyway, and yeah you're right we got into this mess in a banal and ordinary series of massive cock ups. Good lawyers though, they have a knack of interpreting key phrases to benefit the rich.

He even seemed offended at the suggestion we could ignore it. You could smell the insincerity a mile off from the last guy in his position and he even went some way to tell us FFP will affect our spending.

If Purslow is cut from the same cloth as the last guy then  I agree he is a master in deception. 

He’s fooled me anyway. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[snowychap]

On 07/11/2018 at 19:36, OutByEaster? said:

The only thing I can think of beyond that is a "jam tomorrow" policy.

"We'd like to buy your CB please Brentford - we'll pay you £5m. That's £1.00 this season, then £10.00 next season, then £999,989.00 the season after, then £4m the season after that." Can we do that sort of thing? Can you stretch payments over a long period to control when your losses happen?

 

That's cashflow. The cost for each year is the the £5m divided by the length of the contract.

[hooter]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He even seemed offended at the suggestion we could ignore it. You could smell the insincerity a mile off from the last guy in his position and he even went some way to tell us FFP will affect our spending.

If Purslow is cut from the same cloth as the last guy then  I agree he is a master in deception. 

He’s fooled me anyway. 

Rather than run the risk he has fooled you, why not encourage your Trust or similar to write an open letter asking them to explain exactly where you stand ?

If it is truly sorted, then the FL will have no problem with the mechanism by whch it has been sorted being explained, in the name of clarity, or "fair play" even ?

What is clear is that you are potentially hugely in breach unless some massive and unexplained caveat has been uncovered.

If it has, why wouldn't they tell you, and show you how tremendously clever they are ? Maybe because their "clever" solution is only actually agreed in their mind ?

One thing a procession of words removed owning my club has taught me is this, if they won't explain something which appears odd/unlikely/total bollocks, there is normally a reason, and it doesn't tend to end well for the guy buying his season ticket. 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by hooter

[mikeyjavfc]

I imagine given the circumstances of our takeover we are on some kind of bespoke deal with the EFL at this point. Villa were mere days away from a winding up order...if NSWE were smart they would have negotiated with the EFL before the takeover to confirm they weren’t going to bail out villa only to be levied with a massive fine 6 months later due to Xia’s mismanagement, otherwise why make that investment?

Seeing one of England’s great footballing institutions slide into administration only two years after a EFL sanctioned sale is not a good look for the EFL. I suspect a business plan was hammered out and agreed with all parties before any money changed hands. So while we have restrictions, I’m not sure we will be feeling the full pinch of the Xia years in the next FFP report. All speculation of course...maybe we are doomed.

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 hours ago, hooter said:

Rather than run the risk he has fooled you, why not encourage your Trust or similar to write an open letter asking them to explain exactly where you stand ?

If it is truly sorted, then the FL will have no problem with the mechanism by whch it has been sorted being explained, in the name of clarity, or "fair play" even ?

What is clear is that you are potentially hugely in breach unless some massive and unexplained caveat has been uncovered.

If it has, why wouldn't they tell you, and show you how tremendously clever they are ? Maybe because their "clever" solution is only actually agreed in their mind ?

One thing a procession of words removed owning my club has taught me is this, if they won't explain something which appears odd/unlikely/total bollocks, there is normally a reason, and it doesn't tend to end well for the guy buying his season ticket. 

 

I suppose regardless of what happens, knowing the truth, as nice as it would be nice to know isn’t going to make much difference to the average fan. 

[OutByEaster?]

On 09/11/2018 at 08:09, mikeyjavfc said:

I imagine given the circumstances of our takeover we are on some kind of bespoke deal with the EFL at this point. Villa were mere days away from a winding up order...if NSWE were smart they would have negotiated with the EFL before the takeover to confirm they weren’t going to bail out villa only to be levied with a massive fine 6 months later due to Xia’s mismanagement, otherwise why make that investment?

Seeing one of England’s great footballing institutions slide into administration only two years after a EFL sanctioned sale is not a good look for the EFL. I suspect a business plan was hammered out and agreed with all parties before any money changed hands. So while we have restrictions, I’m not sure we will be feeling the full pinch of the Xia years in the next FFP report. All speculation of course...maybe we are doomed.

All of that makes sense, apart from Tony Xia still being a major shareholder. Doesn't he still own 45% of the club?

 

 

 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

All of that makes sense, apart from Tony Xia still being a major shareholder. Doesn't he still own 45% of the club?

I very much doubt it.

Money keeps being put into the club via shares, most recently £11m, which is gradually reducing Xia’s stake. I doubt he still retains 45%.

[ciggiesnbeer]

On 08/11/2018 at 13:41, hooter said:

One thing a procession of words removed owning my club has taught me is this, if they won't explain something which appears odd/unlikely/total bollocks, there is normally a reason, and it doesn't tend to end well for the guy buying his season ticket. 

Wise words right there. We have had a similar experience. To be fair to them the new owners and CEO have been pretty open about things so far but yeah more transparency would help.

[blandy]

I wonder if HS2 Compo for land loss at BH will go in the income pot, but expenditure to move the pitches etc. will be FFP "free" because it's ground improvements. That would be a bonus and may esplain some of the Club's apparent relaxed approach to meeting FFP.

[Dave-R]

On 11/11/2018 at 17:21, TrentVilla said:

I very much doubt it.

Money keeps being put into the club via shares, most recently £11m, which is gradually reducing Xia’s stake. I doubt he still retains 45%.

Wouldn't xia have to keep pouring money in himself to keep his percentage alive, otherwise it gets weakened overtime if others are putting money in and he isn't rite??

Also is there a thread where the current state of this TV deal is being talked?? I don't see one.. I think it's real bad that the lowest of premier league clubs are getting 100mill a season, yet championship clubs are seeing 100k a game or 10k if they are the away team, its proper rubbish that is.

[mikeyjavfc]

Let me get this straight:

1. The EFL enforces the FFP rules which tests the profit and loss of football clubs.

2. The EFL control the TV rights deal, which forms a major (the major?) source of  income to football club.

3. The EFL negotiates a bad deal which does not bring in as much income to certain football clubs as it could, and further affects income in terms of falling attendances due to many mid-week and rearranged TV games.

4. The EFL punishes football clubs for failing the profit and loss test...and will not listen when clubs try to negotiate a fair TV deal.

Seems pretty crooked to me, I am not surprised there are murmurings of a breakaway league.

[villa4europe]

dont we all get a fair split and then an appearance fee?

if football manager taught me anything its that you get £1.2m in the PL everytime you are TV (but they dont like to talk about it that much because under FFP you start to realise the "fairness" of the deal when UTD are on 30 times a season and brighton are on the minimum 8 or whatever it is)

i am guessing that the 2 sheffield clubs took the kings shilling when they agreed to play friday night, the policing costs would be higher but the sky appearance fee would cover it and a bit more

[TRO]

On 08/11/2018 at 21:41, hooter said:

Rather than run the risk he has fooled you, why not encourage your Trust or similar to write an open letter asking them to explain exactly where you stand ?

If it is truly sorted, then the FL will have no problem with the mechanism by whch it has been sorted being explained, in the name of clarity, or "fair play" even ?

What is clear is that you are potentially hugely in breach unless some massive and unexplained caveat has been uncovered.

If it has, why wouldn't they tell you, and show you how tremendously clever they are ? Maybe because their "clever" solution is only actually agreed in their mind ?

One thing a procession of words removed owning my club has taught me is this, if they won't explain something which appears odd/unlikely/total bollocks, there is normally a reason, and it doesn't tend to end well for the guy buying his season ticket. 

 

as a layman...The problem with accountancy as i see it is.....you only find a problem when someone has gone from their post.

commonly called ar*e covering.....aided an abetted by bull ****

[TRO]

On 09/11/2018 at 08:09, mikeyjavfc said:

I imagine given the circumstances of our takeover we are on some kind of bespoke deal with the EFL at this point. Villa were mere days away from a winding up order...if NSWE were smart they would have negotiated with the EFL before the takeover to confirm they weren’t going to bail out villa only to be levied with a massive fine 6 months later due to Xia’s mismanagement, otherwise why make that investment?

Seeing one of England’s great footballing institutions slide into administration only two years after a EFL sanctioned sale is not a good look for the EFL. I suspect a business plan was hammered out and agreed with all parties before any money changed hands. So while we have restrictions, I’m not sure we will be feeling the full pinch of the Xia years in the next FFP report. All speculation of course...maybe we are doomed.

makes sense.

but, stick to the league table, its the only thing that don't lie

Edited November 20, 2018 by TRO

[blandy]

PLEASE TALK ABOUT TV DEALS AND BREAKAWAY LEAGUES HERE. 

THIS THREAD IS FOR FFP

[Demitri_C]

O personally think the way we are going about ffp is. We spend and if we don't go up we sell grealish for 30m which will cover ffp for now or we go up and then get back to the big time.

[cyrusr]

Anyone else noticed that over the past 4/5 months or so there has been an extra £52 million in capital put into the club? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history

 

Quote

26 Jun 2018

Statement of capital following an allotment of shares on 25 May 2018 GBP 142,061,725

Quote

2 Nov 2018

Statement of capital following an allotment of shares on 13 November 2018 GBP 194,780,725

 

Now I am pretty sure that's one way to deal with the issues of FFP and ensuring there is money for the January transfer window... 

Edited December 3, 2018 by cyrusr
Typo...

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, cyrusr said:

Anyone else noticed that over the past 4/5 months or so there has been an extra £52 million in capital put into the club? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history

 

 

Now I am pretty sure that's one way to deal with the issues of FPP and ensuring there is money for the January transfer window... 

must be...FFP? completed it mate

[cyrusr]

2 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

must be...FFP? completed it mate

damn typo...