Ollie Watkins

[CVByrne]

Quote

OLLIE WATKINS
Used to be an adventurer like you, but then he took a stud to the knee in the first minute. Yet that did not stop Watkins constantly exploring and helping knit a fluid, excellent attack together. The Aston Villa forward did not drop into midfield and play 30-yard passes in behind like Kane but often came deep to receive the ball and lay it off short to a willing runner, all within a couple of touches. That link-up play came to the fore with Sterling’s goal but before then it was Watkins’ own movement and anticipation that allowed him to convert the Manchester City forward’s cross with ease a few minutes earlier. A very complicated role was made to look simple by a player with more dimensions than some give him credit for. Kane’s current chief deputy might just have made himself known.

England player ratings v Ivory Coast: Sterling, Bellingham, Watkins and booed Maguire impress (football365.com)

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

That is the thing about strikers, though. They will often frustrate. Their job is to score goals, but they will often need 2/3 chances before they put one in the net. Striker, the most difficult job in football.

Ollie frustrates more than most because of his lack of technical ability and intelligence though.

[barry'sboots]

2 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Ollie frustrates more than most because of his lack of technical ability and intelligence though.

I think he showed both in his goal (intelligence - great instinctive movement) and assist (good technique).

He is not Harry Kane but he is better than 90% of no. 9's in the PL imho.

And he can get better.  If we can work on a system that feeds him.  Such a shame that Jack moved on as those two had real chemistry and Jack's passing was made for Ollie's runs.

He is also a great presser from the front.

There is talk of us upgrading in the summer - if we do we will be buying some player!

[bobzy]

IMO we don't do Ollie any favours with the system that we're playing.  When we had genuine wide attacking threat (Grealish/Traore mostly), Watkins thrived.  Those players took defenders wide and Watkins' movement in the box is very good - he showed it again last night.  He looks to drop deep and bring those attacking players forward all the time (and sometimes this is mixed, his first touch isn't always the best but they're mostly under pressure).  Again, for Sterling's goal as a highlight, he did this well last night.

However, we're looking to utilise Coutinho as a 10 now with width coming from Digne/Cash.  This has the added bonus of generally pulling opposition attacking players slightly further back, but also means that Watkins is largely outnumbered in the middle of the pitch.  He also doesn't have the same opportunities as last season to manipulate space in the box because it's rare that the ball is advancing that far down the flanks and being crossed in/pulled back.  Unless we have a significant attacking force from the middle of the pitch - and that has happened at times with Coutinho and particularly Ramsey moving forward - we're basically not playing to the strengths of our main striker.

He'll continue to drop deep and work hard (I'm staggered people think he just "runs around a lot" - **** nonsense ) but we simply won't find him scoring the same number of goals in this system.  The flip side of that is that midfielders should, theoretically, chip in with more.

[TRO]

Much better last Night Ollie.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, bobzy said:

IMO we don't do Ollie any favours with the system that we're playing.  When we had genuine wide attacking threat (Grealish/Traore mostly), Watkins thrived.  Those players took defenders wide and Watkins' movement in the box is very good - he showed it again last night.  He looks to drop deep and bring those attacking players forward all the time (and sometimes this is mixed, his first touch isn't always the best but they're mostly under pressure).  Again, for Sterling's goal as a highlight, he did this well last night.

However, we're looking to utilise Coutinho as a 10 now with width coming from Digne/Cash.  This has the added bonus of generally pulling opposition attacking players slightly further back, but also means that Watkins is largely outnumbered in the middle of the pitch.  He also doesn't have the same opportunities as last season to manipulate space in the box because it's rare that the ball is advancing that far down the flanks and being crossed in/pulled back.  Unless we have a significant attacking force from the middle of the pitch - and that has happened at times with Coutinho and particularly Ramsey moving forward - we're basically not playing to the strengths of our main striker.

He'll continue to drop deep and work hard (I'm staggered people think he just "runs around a lot" - **** nonsense ) but we simply won't find him scoring the same number of goals in this system.  The flip side of that is that midfielders should, theoretically, chip in with more.

Grealish and Sterling was a dream for him last night and Bellingham was on the same wave length.

The work Sterling did for Ollies goal, is not to be under estimated, but Ollies movement was class too, sharp reaction, to the expected cross.....thats chemistry.

It was a tap in.....but he made it a tap in, along with Sterlings trickery......goals are simple, when its all broken down.

I am not sure, its the system, I think its more personnel and their work.....its about chemistry, and understanding what other players will do.

 

[Sulberto21]

5 hours ago, The_Steve said:

Not really smiling after the goal - gotta question his attitude and commitment to international football 

Or maybe ward-prowse  picked his nose just before hi5ing Ollie? Hmm yeah on reflection I’d go with your assessment. 

[HalfTimePost]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

Grealish and Sterling was a dream for him last night and Bellingham was on the same wave length.

The work Sterling did for Ollies goal, is not to be under estimated, but Ollies movement was class too, sharp reaction, to the expected cross.....thats chemistry.

It was a tap in.....but he made it a tap in, along with Sterlings trickery......goals are simple, when its all broken down.

I am not sure, its the system, I think its more personnel and their work.....its about chemistry, and understanding what other players will do.

 

Needs to spend some time getting to know Buendia and Coutinho then. As in them two we have two of the best passers of attacking No10s in the league. Certainly outside of the Top 6.

Threading passes through to strikers making runs is literally their bread and butter. Maybe we need a slight tweak and maybe there is a style difference but between them two and Bailey we have signed players to feed him the ball or to pull players in with trickery to open up space for him.

Hasn't worked so far for multiple reasons and it's not all on Ollie for sure. But considering he was at Brentford in the Championship 2 seasons ago, we've made huge signings to keep him happy and sign players that align to his strengths. Yes he lost Grealish (but they didn't have the best chemistry for the first part of last season and then Jack was injured for most of the second half) but had he joined any other lower-Prem team last season he'd have had nowhere near the investments around him to keep progressing.

The Ings experiment aside. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel as though that's Purslows meddling and has set Ollie back years. Hopefully Gerrard can get it firing because he showed last year he can be a natural finisher and he can certainly progress further. His work rate etc. Last year was phenomenal and players like Firmino have shown that can work at much higher levels than we are at. There's no need to be thinking Ollie can't succeed here further up the league

Edited March 30, 2022 by HalfTimePost

[KentVillan]

Think Ollie is a classic workhorse striker who benefits from having pace and attacking ability around him.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Grealish and Sterling was a dream for him last night and Bellingham was on the same wave length.

The work Sterling did for Ollies goal, is not to be under estimated, but Ollies movement was class too, sharp reaction, to the expected cross.....thats chemistry.

It was a tap in.....but he made it a tap in, along with Sterlings trickery......goals are simple, when its all broken down.

I am not sure, its the system, I think its more personnel and their work.....its about chemistry, and understanding what other players will do.

To an extent I agree, and there's been glimpses of "chemistry" between Coutinho and Watkins in previous games with through balls being played into Watkins with space ahead of him.  Similarly, some of Watkins' movement has created space for Ramsey, in particular, to exploit.

However, under our current system, that width provided by both Grealish and Sterling which allows the ball to be wide and Watkins to find space in the box... we're just not doing that.  Our play is central with wing backs providing the width and generally crossing from deeper.  The Ings goal against Southampton is more like the kind of service that England strikers (as a comparison for Watkins and Ings, I suppose) will get.  Cash got right to the by-line and was then able to pick out Ings' movement in the box.  Generally, we don't do this.  No amount of chemistry/understanding can replace players being in the 'correct' positions to create those goalscoring opportunities.

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, Tom13 said:

Ollie frustrates more than most because of his lack of technical ability and intelligence though.

I don't agree. I think he has both.

[villanmac]

Between the ears he's brilliant, that's why he's got as far as he has with limited technical ability. 

[Tom13]

10 minutes ago, villanmac said:

Between the ears he's brilliant, that's why he's got as far as he has with limited technical ability. 

Being very slow to realise where he's supposed to run, and when to release the ball/spot a pass, suggests he does lack a lot of footballing intelligence.

[Steero113]

15 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Being very slow to realise where he's supposed to run, and when to release the ball/spot a pass, suggests he does lack a lot of footballing intelligence.

Can't agree with a lot of this I'm afraid mate. 

Except releasing the ball at the right time/spotting a pass, I will agree on that one to an extent. Although assists such as the one for JJ against Norwich show he has a good level of awareness. 

The quality of his movement is absolutely unquestionable. I have no idea what you're talking about there. 

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

To an extent I agree, and there's been glimpses of "chemistry" between Coutinho and Watkins in previous games with through balls being played into Watkins with space ahead of him.  Similarly, some of Watkins' movement has created space for Ramsey, in particular, to exploit.

However, under our current system, that width provided by both Grealish and Sterling which allows the ball to be wide and Watkins to find space in the box... we're just not doing that.  Our play is central with wing backs providing the width and generally crossing from deeper.  The Ings goal against Southampton is more like the kind of service that England strikers (as a comparison for Watkins and Ings, I suppose) will get.  Cash got right to the by-line and was then able to pick out Ings' movement in the box.  Generally, we don't do this.  No amount of chemistry/understanding can replace players being in the 'correct' positions to create those goalscoring opportunities.

I think it all stems from not having a proper DCM.  Get that, free up SJM and one of JJ or DL to be more progressive and Ollie will get better supply/the opposition will be more stretched.

A proper DCM is critical to the way we play and getting the balance right.

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, Steero113 said:

Can't agree with a lot of this I'm afraid mate. 

Except releasing the ball at the right time/spotting a pass, I will agree on that one to an extent. Although assists such as the one for JJ against Norwich show he has a good level of awareness. 

The quality of his movement is absolutely unquestionable. I have no idea what you're talking about there. 

I remember last season on a few occasions, Grealish would have the ball, and the run to make would be obvious, but Watkins just wouldn't see it, so Grealish would have to delay and delay. Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on him.

[briny_ear]

Well done Ollie.

[KentVillan]

49 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

I remember last season on a few occasions, Grealish would have the ball, and the run to make would be obvious, but Watkins just wouldn't see it, so Grealish would have to delay and delay. Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on him.

I think you’re talking about his movement for the final pass, which isn’t always perfect.

But his general movement (eg creating wide options, knowing when to come deep, etc) is excellent.

That’s why I think he benefits from more pace and width around him, as he’s good at dragging centre backs out of position and creating space.

[barry'sboots]

5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think you’re talking about his movement for the final pass, which isn’t always perfect.

But his general movement (eg creating wide options, knowing when to come deep, etc) is excellent.

That’s why I think he benefits from more pace and width around him, as he’s good at dragging centre backs out of position and creating space.

I think you can never have too much pace on a football pitch which is what excites me so much about a fit Bailey.  I sat behind his runs when he came on against Everton and you could see Ben Godfrey - who I do rate - *****ing himself when Bailey got on the ball.

Can't wait to see him get properly back in the mix - hopefully after this break - and rotate/sub in with Phillipe and Emi.  I think Ollie will benefit from the space created by Bailey stretching the back line.

[nick76]

Hopefully the Ollie from last night will turn up for us on Saturday.

Edited March 30, 2022 by nick76