Tom13 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Don’t act like you wouldn’t hound Havertz out within a month, he scores even fewer goals than Watkins. Much better player though, and Havertz isn't a striker Edited March 13, 2022 by Tom13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 3 hours ago, nick76 said: So are you saying he can only play well against mediocre or rubbish teams whereas big teams will stop him or are you saying he just wasn’t good enough today? Just clarifying. I don’t think it’s that he wasn’t good enough today. I just think West Ham did a great job of shutting down us going forward. Even Coutinho struggled today. It wasn’t easy like it was against Southampton or Leeds and sometimes you just get beat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Ollie has his strengths, but my god I wish he could pass the ball to one of our own players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 6 hours ago, MellbergsBeard said: people saying he is poor in one breath and we should sell him for 40/50 million in the next. I think the point is to cash in on his perceived ability before the smoke machine breaks down and the mirrors crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 When Ollie and Danny don’t score, at least it’s nice to remember our two strikers aren’t called Romelu and Timo and charge a combined £600k per week to sit on the bench or miss sitters. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 When watkins is bad he is very bad. Its like playing with 10 men. He is a decent player but his finishing has become so bad in comparison to last year. He isnt the type of player that would take you to next level i am afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 He needs to be dropped but I have a feeling the club want to continue to play him in order to keep his value high… Would that be a fair thing to say? Personally, If we’re to improve, I think we need to go back to playing one striker and it can’t be Watkins. We need better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 West Ham defended deep and in numbers, this is a player like Watkins' krytonite. His game is stretching teams, receiving balls from deep in space, and getting in the channels and inbehind. West Ham never allowed him the space to do this. Watkins is dynamic rather than skillful, so playing tiki-taka in tight spaces simply isn't his game. West Ham defend really well they always had 6 men back whenever we looked to counter. You need a few agile dribblers that have good short passing to pry that kind of defence open 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Tactically we should have played with the two 10s as they play with a double pivot. But I think Gerrard is worried about Watkins up top on his own when it comes to goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 22 minutes ago, Philosopher said: West Ham defended deep and in numbers, this is a player like Watkins' krytonite. His game is stretching teams, receiving balls from deep in space, and getting in the channels and inbehind. West Ham never allowed him the space to do this. So every team that play us should just do this and completely nullify Ollie. May as well sell him if that’s the case because he’ll be deemed useless as he’s found out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: So every team that play us should just do this and completely nullify Ollie. May as well sell him if that’s the case because he’ll be deemed useless as he’s found out? Plenty of strikers would struggle in the same situation though. West Ham are a good team. Defenses often nullify strikers, and it doesn't make the striker bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Rolta said: Plenty of strikers would struggle in the same situation though. West Ham are a good team. Defenses often nullify strikers, and it doesn't make the striker bad. I was just relaying back what he said not necessarily what I think. If he can only play one way then it is an issue. The Jekyll and Hyde in his performances has me puzzled and it’s not just about the opposition. Edited March 14, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I like Watkins and don't think how huge an influence he was especially last season can be underestimated as he essentially transformed how the team played, but I just think he has quite a noticeable ceiling due to how limited he is technically at this level. Great work rate, good instincts and positional play but his first touch and general ability on the ball is so inconsistent and not really at the level of those around him. Don't think he's a problem at all but I think it's fair to say he's one of the players that could be upgraded upon if you're talking about getting to the "next level". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: So every team that play us should just do this and completely nullify Ollie. May as well sell him if that’s the case because he’ll be deemed useless as he’s found out? You need more than one lock picker. We only had Coutinho. Once Bailey and Buendia came on we lost our shape a bit but we definitely started generating some chances. Both strikers got zero service yesterday so pointing the finger towards them would be unfair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: You need more than one lock picker. We only had Coutinho. Once Bailey and Buendia came on we lost our shape a bit but we definitely started generating some chances. Both strikers got zero service yesterday so pointing the finger towards them would be unfair. So we need to drop a striker and just play with one striker are you saying? Gerrard doesn’t want to play that as he said because he wants more goals on the pitch so wants to play two up front. While I get the more lock picker players, I’m not convinced Ollie did himself enough justice to solely blame the lack of lock pickers. He needed to do more, there are always going to occasional games that that he get nullified with his traditional game, he thus needs to change it up and not be so predictable and work harder if he wants to become a better player and help the team. It’s ok to play well when you’re allowed to play well but when you are against the wall is when top players are able to find a way to still produce, Ollie doesn’t have that in his locker yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 48 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: You need more than one lock picker. We only had Coutinho. Once Bailey and Buendia came on we lost our shape a bit but we definitely started generating some chances. Both strikers got zero service yesterday so pointing the finger towards them would be unfair. Our 7 shots on target Vs their 4 suggests our “lock picker” created more than enough we just need someone to be more clinical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 49 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: You need more than one lock picker. We only had Coutinho. Once Bailey and Buendia came on we lost our shape a bit but we definitely started generating some chances. Both strikers got zero service yesterday so pointing the finger towards them would be unfair. I reckon we might need to put more time on the training pitch, into our " Plan B " and " Plan C " shape and tactics. So that we will be able to both change the dynamic, by introducing those players, but not also totally losing our solidity and shape. I think the early/forced sub or Digne affected this though. If we were able to bring on say Sanson, or Tim Iroegbumaundfisteofgasy as well as the attackers, the dynamic might have been different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: Our 7 shots on target Vs their 4 suggests our “lock picker” created more than enough we just need someone to be more clinical. Over half our xG (1.1) and our best chance (Buendia's shot off of Bailey's cross) came after the 75th minute. Didn't create much of all in the first 70. Not blaming Countinho, West Ham's low block is very good. They are a well drilled, physical outfit. Just a bad matchup as we are currently setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 8 hours ago, nick76 said: So every team that play us should just do this and completely nullify Ollie. May as well sell him if that’s the case because he’ll be deemed useless as he’s found out? Different strikers have different strengths and weaknesses. Ings was just as impotent he was just a bit better in the tight spaces and came deep alot. Watkins is asked to play on the shoulder of the last defender, because that suits his game. Ing is asked to drop off because that suits his game. It's horses for courses. Theoretically defending deep would create more space for Ings and Coutinho to operate in so Watkins can then act as a fox in the box. Problem was our midfield struggled the get the ball out of our own half and when they did they were so slow to do so West ham always had at least 6 men behind the ball (usually all 11). The reason why the traditional little and large strike partnership became so popular is because if you defend high the little quick one will hurt you and if you defend deep the big strong one will hurt you. Yesterday was a day for a target man or a false nine. One of Guardiola's tactics is to play without a recognised striker, he usually does this when teams defend deep and in numbers. Some strikers trancend this of course. Lewandowski, Drogba, Ronaldo for example. Quick and strong. Can hold it up or run in behind. Or like Aguero and Maradona can run in behind, but also skillful and creative enough to drop off, turn, and run at defenders. These strikers are hard to find though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Philosopher said: Different strikers have different strengths and weaknesses. Ings was just as impotent he was just a bit better in the tight spaces and came deep alot. Watkins is asked to play on the shoulder of the last defender, because that suits his game. Ing is asked to drop off because that suits his game. It's horses for courses. Theoretically defending deep would create more space for Ings and Coutinho to operate in so Watkins can then act as a fox in the box. Problem was our midfield struggled the get the ball out of our own half and when they did they were so slow to do so West ham always had at least 6 men behind the ball (usually all 11). The reason why the traditional little and large strike partnership became so popular is because if you defend high the little quick one will hurt you and if you defend deep the big strong one will hurt you. Yesterday was a day for a target man or a false nine. One of Guardiola's tactics is to play without a recognised striker, he usually does this when teams defend deep and in numbers. Some strikers trancend this of course. Lewandowski, Drogba, Ronaldo for example. Quick and strong. Can hold it up or run in behind. Or like Aguero and Maradona can run in behind, but also skillful and creative enough to drop off, turn, and run at defenders. These strikers are hard to find though. Don’t know if you are agreeing with the question I was asking or disagreeing? I wasn’t saying he was or wasn’t, I was asking the previous comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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