CVByrne Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: If Luiz signs his new deal JJ could end up our 4th highest paid midfielder, wonder what JJ thinks about Kamara earning £150k a week I'd say £30k is the starting point increasing based on performance and appearances, 5 year deal Again kamara is 22 and on £150k a week, chuk at 18 is looking for a contract that potentially takes him up to 23 years old... We have various disparities in our squad as it grows, Watkins and Ings is another one Not much because he doesn't earn that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 I don't blame the club for its stance. If Chuk was to sign the current offer, have a stand out season. then he'd get a better new contract from us anyway. You can't demand the world when you haven't shown anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: In the context of normal life of course it is But in the context of football its not, football has long gone and its not coming back So we are agreed. End of the day, you and I are subsidizing this "not coming back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: Not much because he doesn't earn that. How much is he on then? None of them are particularly reliable but I've not seen anyone say lower than that, fair few saying higher (I don't beleive the £60m over 5 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: Not much because he doesn't earn that. Furthermore, If JJ ran his contract down, and proved to be a " Star " worth the money, he could command those figures as there is no transfer fee etc. Aside from that, JJ just strikes me as a different character to alot of young Footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: It was widely agreed that in JJ's first season he looked uninspiring, kind of like Chuk last season, which is to be expected of a first time playing competitive men's football. The encouraging thing was that they both held their own, which isn't to be sniffed at. I don't see much difference between their trajectories apart from the fact that Chuk is doing it a year earlier. He also clearly has more talent than JJ did at that age. His touch, weight of passing and vision are all well beyond his years. Yeah he didnt look great but you could see he had sonething about him. One thing i did notice about him was his footballing brain. When we were attacking he knew in what areas to be in the final third but his finishing was utterly awful. I think his confidence took abit of a hit. Chuck the only goal threat ive seen from him was in his first game vs spurs were he looked very good. Dince then we have since glimpses. Ok i can accept he is 18 so we cant expect the world from him. But i do have serious reservations that chuck will hit JJs level when he turns 21. He at times looks abit lazy on the pitch something that he desperately needs to work on. Thats something i never thought of JJ at 18. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: How much is he on then? None of them are particularly reliable but I've not seen anyone say lower than that, fair few saying higher (I don't beleive the £60m over 5 years) There is a zero % chance he is our top earner. I would say he's 6th behind Coutinho, Martinez, Ings, Digne and Carlos. Probably £90k base + performance bonus. He would have got a decent sign on fee though. Remember he started 12 games when he was 17 turning 18 in France and that was 5 seasons ago. He's been a first team regular since then and I expect if JJ progresses over the next two seasons he'll be given a new contract putting him on par at least with Kamara. Players are paid based on what they have done. Not what they and the club hope they can do Edited July 13, 2022 by CVByrne forgot Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah he didnt look great but you could see he had sonething about him. One thing i did notice about him was his footballing brain. When we were attacking he knew in what areas to be in the final third but his finishing was utterly awful. I think his confidence took abit of a hit. Chuck the only goal threat ive seen from him was in his first game vs spurs were he looked very good. Dince then we have since glimpses. Ok i can accept he is 18 so we cant expect the world from him. But i do have serious reservations that chuck will hit JJs level when he turns 21. He at times looks abit lazy on the pitch something that he desperately needs to work on. Thats something i never thought of JJ at 18. Quick jump into the Ramsey thread from last season. first page or two....You can guess the poster Quote Thought he was a wasted sub. Waa really poor. He isnt ready. I really wanted to see chuk given a chance instead Quote No more starts. We have a talent like chuk rightly getting upset that somone like ramsey who has done nothing continues to be ahead of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 The whole situation sucks but I can't blame Gerrard and the club for holding firm. He might sign with Dortmund or Barca or he might not find a club willing to pay what he's asking. I hope a deal is worked out but we can't be held to ransom by an 18yo prospect who hasn't shown anything but flashes of talent at the top level. I'd expect if he signs that deal and commits to the club he'll see a fair bit of game time next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I don’t know Chuck or how he’s behaving. However if he’s looking for a bigger pay day then there’s an element of being badly advised. Most of the other development players around him have signed new contracts, so I doubt the club are being tight. If he plays and does well, then like plenty of others in the recent past I’m sure improved terms will be on the cards. If it’s down to game time, surely he’s the only person who can effect that? No player, or at least very few can expect to be guaranteed time on the pitch, without putting in performances that make that happen. If a 19 year old with a handful of first team matches thinks he can make those sort of demands, then he’s either deluded or again badly advised. He’s playing under a manager who is an expro at the very highest level. He’ll know exactly how the process works and I think that generally comes down to relentless hard work on and off the pitch, coupled with a desire to succeed which translates into proving you’re good enough, every match and every training session. I’m not sure he’s done that yet but I’m pretty sure the club nor the manager will be bullied. Hopefully if there is a problem of this nature, the senior players in the club will give him some good advice and he will listen to them. A hell of a lot of talented players have fell by the wayside for reasons other than lack of talent. I think SG's patience is possibly wearing thin. Whilst Carney reserves the right to make his own decisions......SG reserves the right to make his, too. SG has a huge amount of personnel to manage, not just one......and precendents and standards are tricky to navigate. I think SG is doing the right thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 2 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Smiling and drinking Maté. Better not be doing it in town, maté. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, CVByrne said: There is a zero % chance he is our top earner. I would say he's 6th behind Coutinho, Martinez, Ings, Digne and Carlos. Probably £90k base + performance bonus. He would have got a decent sign on fee though. Remember he started 12 games when he was 17 turning 18 in France and that was 5 seasons ago. He's been a first team regular since then and I expect if JJ progresses over the next two seasons he'll be given a new contract putting him on par at least with Kamara. Players are paid based on what they have done. Not what they and the club hope they can do You missed out the fact of so many clubs interested in him would raise his demands. I’d be surprised if he’s not one of our top earners as he was a keenly sort after player and somehow 14th placed little us got him and we are led to believe that is all down to the Gerrard influence. Yes the Gerrard influence would’ve been good but we’ve offered him big cash to turn down European football level clubs otherwise why would he come here over better choices available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I'd expect if he signs that deal and commits to the club he'll see a fair bit of game time next season. He doesn’t look ready though. Massive talent but still a bit away from serious first team game time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, CVByrne said: There is a zero % chance he is our top earner. I would say he's 6th behind Coutinho, Martinez, Ings, Digne and Carlos. Probably £90k base + performance bonus. He would have got a decent sign on fee though. Remember he started 12 games when he was 17 turning 18 in France and that was 5 seasons ago. He's been a first team regular since then and I expect if JJ progresses over the next two seasons he'll be given a new contract putting him on par at least with Kamara. Players are paid based on what they have done. Not what they and the club hope they can do Players are paid based on whatever it takes to get them to sign a contract for us and still be worth it. If Kamara wanted a 150k per week contract and we thought it was still worth it to pay him that amount, we'd pay him that. Its not like he didn't have other options that he would've happily moved to instead if we didn't meet his demands. Edited July 13, 2022 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: You missed out the fact of so many clubs interested in him would raise his demands. I’d be surprised if he’s not one of our top earners as he was a keenly sort after player and somehow 14th placed little us got him and we are led to believe that is all down to the Gerrard influence. Yes the Gerrard influence would’ve been good but we’ve offered him big cash to turn down European football level clubs otherwise why would he come here over better choices available. We only know of Atletico who were interested. Very few clubs can offer wages that compete with what we offered. He'll earn over 100k a week with the bonuses. He's one of our top earners for sure. We also would have paid a sign on bonus. The reason I'm confident is you cannot have a wage structure where players are unequal. It just drives more wage demands. I'm sure Kamara being one of the top earners is fine because he's had 5 seasons of top flight football and lots of European experience and just became a France international. Age is only a number, it's experience which we have to pay for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmirch Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 He's taking a risk, fair play to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Players are paid based on whatever it takes to get them to sign a contract for us and still be worth it. If Kamara wanted a 150k per week contract and we thought it was still worth it to pay him that amount, we'd pay him that. Its not like he didn't have other options that he would've happily moved to instead if we didn't meet his demands. Yes, that's why we have made Kamara one of the top earners at the club. But he's not going to be earning more than the senior players I listed, Coutinho took a pay cut to fit within our max salary of £120k a week. Digne and Ings are top experienced players on over 100k a week also. Martinez likely signed a deal on over 100k a week. There is no situation where Kamara is paid more than them. He's surely close like 90-100k territory. Plus, he would have got a sign on bonus due to joining on a free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Zatman said: Quick jump into the Ramsey thread from last season. first page or two....You can guess the poster Seems abit pointless bringing up posts from january 2019, im sure if i looked hard enough i could posts from 2 years ago things that you may have said thats questionable when you see what happens a few years later. Its like if gerrard won us a fa cup in 2 years and me digging up a post from 2 years before where you said he was shit A lot can happen in 2 years Edited July 13, 2022 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Seems abit pointless bringing up posts from january 2019, im sure if i looked hard enough i could posts from 2 years ago things that you may have said thats questionable when you see what happens a few years later. Its like if gerrard won us a fa cup in 2 years and me digging up a post from 2 years before where you said he was shit A lot can happen in 2 years They were from May 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Nigel said: You also have to look at this from our point of view concerning future cases like this. It may cause more damage medium and long term if carney is allowed to maneuver villa into a big contract. If taken at face value in terms of whats going on I wouldn't be surprised to see him gone as we won't bow to his demands, which could be the right thing to do. spot on.....we can't have the tail wagging the dog. its a sad situation....and a player, we don't want to lose.....but the relationship between him and the club, seems to be getting worse not better. Its hard to formulate a firm opinion, but I will always give the club, the benefit of the doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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