TRO Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: As has been explained by others, your consistent logic of defending some and criticising others over similar performances is tricky to follow. You think it's fair, that's fine, your opinion, do what you want with it. I am interested in your thoughts though...IMO we need about five or six new starting players this summer. That in itself tells you how poor the squad is. I hope we're scrapping over PL performances not Championship ones next season. That is not accurate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: It is you who seems to be claiming the high ground. I don’t like 21 defeats any more than you do, I would like every performance (and result) to be like the one against Arsenal but I’m realistic enough to realise that given our trajectory that was not possible this season Your version of the better fan argument “you might be happy to accept that, but I have higher standards” is nonsense. I didn’t “accept flirting with relegation from the get go”, I realised from watching many years of football that a good but novice manager combined with a fledgling squad still in transition would do very well to get to 17th - most clubs who come up from the playoffs do not achieve that Constantly moaning is easy. It’s odd that you were on the other side of the argument when Bruce was here achieving not a fraction of what Smith has already delivered. The dynamics of the 2 managers reign with us is different.....Bruce had far worse owners to deal with than Dean...but look we have done it to death.....you have your view and I have mine.....Dean admitted he inherited a decent team with the odd exception. I have already, said I wanted Bruce to go, when he did......i don't know what more you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2020 On 30/05/2020 at 14:00, alreadyexists said: I don’t think we’ll get relegated... I’m not massively confident or anything, but I just have a feeling we will scrape it on the last day or something. I said this in May... could be a premonition! Come on Villa! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 23 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said: Im trying to totally relax myself before sunday by being calm anout pltential relegation. If we go down: Owners care about our future Will likely keep heaton, mcginn, targett, guilbert and konsa to build around. Its a weak league next year we should dominate. Dean smith is proven in this league. Many excitable and gettable players. We will be challenging for top two. We have been expected to go down all season. If we stay up: A huge achievement after the mega rebuild. Money to burn. No Suso. Potential to attract some big name players. Huge potential to push on and cement our place. Possibly keep jack. Positives in every scenario!! Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dodgyknees Posted July 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: As has been explained by others, your consistent logic of defending some and criticising others over similar performances is tricky to follow. You think it's fair, that's fine, your opinion, do what you want with it. I am interested in your thoughts though...IMO we need about five or six new starting players this summer. That in itself tells you how poor the squad is. I hope we're scrapping over PL performances not Championship ones next season. Bruce had the most expensive team in the league and failed. Smith has one of the “cheapest” sides in this league and might keep us up. Bruce got defended constantly, Smith gets every mistake thrown down our throats. About right? 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 8 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: That's a load of crap. Came in, did largely a decent job as a experienced defensive midfielder who didn't cost a lot. Not flash but consistent. That's why he has had a long career in which he played over 30 games for different clubs for 15 consecutive seasons. And over 80 caps for his country. It's really not. He was largely pathetic and you were constantly shitting it when he was playing as he always had a terminal error in him. He improved towards the end but it wasn't hard to. Just look at the Whelan thread at all the clangers and piss poor performances he put in. And the most ringing endorsement his time was over - despite this upturn in form he was dropped for the play off final for Hourihane which was a great call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, VillaJ100 said: It's really not. He was largely pathetic and you were constantly shitting it when he was playing as he always had a terminal error in him. He improved towards the end but it wasn't hard to. Just look at the Whelan thread at all the clangers and piss poor performances he put in. And the most ringing endorsement his time was over - despite this upturn in form he was dropped for the play off final for Hourihane which was a great call. Whelan was one of our best performing players in the 10 game run. It is utter nonsense to label his 2 year stay at Villa as largely pathetic. Solid player but we were right not to extend the contract as he wouldn't have coped with the Prem. A good pro. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Need to find a Whelan type for next season imo. Would sell Nakamba if we had to pay higher wages to get a decent calibre old head in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 4 hours ago, avfcDJ said: Bruce had the most expensive team in the league and failed. Smith has one of the “cheapest” sides in this league and might keep us up. Bruce got defended constantly, Smith gets every mistake thrown down our throats. About right? I think that's probably the most nonsensical statement I have ever read on Villatalk! Bruce was generally vilified on here almost from the word go - quite a lot of it unpleasantly personal abuse. He got us into the playoff places, we lost narrowly - he was written of as a failure. Smith got us into the playoff places, he won narrowly. He was hailed as a hero - such is life, the victors write the histories. He has faltered badly in the premier league and the excuses have flowed - he didn't pick the squad, Suso did, the squad are all useless, and so on... About right? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 44 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Bruce was generally vilified on here almost from the word go Absolutely untrue. Bruce was given the most time of any of our managers post-MON. Finished 13th his first season and we were understandingg and didnt call for his head for the most part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted July 25, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 25, 2020 39 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Absolutely untrue. Bruce was given the most time of any of our managers post-MON. Finished 13th his first season and we were understandingg and didnt call for his head for the most part. I'm sorry I have to disagree, I and many others spent a fair chunk of Bruce's time wanting him gone. I'm not the type to write continual posts slamming anyone from Villa but plenty got very personal and ugly about Bruce. Even so much that I shared quite a frosty rapport with @briny_ear and a couple of others over Bruce and his tenure. So I'm part of the proof that Bruce didn't get an easy ride. He was basically ridiculed to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: I'm sorry I have to disagree, I and many others spent a fair chunk of Bruce's time wanting him gone. I'm not the type to write continual posts slamming anyone from Villa but plenty got very personal and ugly about Bruce. Even so much that I shared quite a frosty rapport with @briny_ear and a couple of others over Bruce and his tenure. So I'm part of the proof that Bruce didn't get an easy ride. He was basically ridiculed to the end. You're where "for the most part" comes in. I remember a poll after his first season and the vast majority of people on here were happy for him to stay and have a crack at promotion with a full preseason under his belt. That's a hell of a lot more than most of our managers got after underperforming. Smith for one, has been getting absolute pelters all year despite being our only manager to actually accomplish something since 1996. He barely got a year. Houllier and McLeish were facing all kinds of abuse in their first and only seasons at the club etc. Bruce got the easiest ride by far. It only became ugly once he failed to win promotion after the second attempt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: Absolutely untrue. Bruce was given the most time of any of our managers post-MON. Finished 13th his first season and we were understandingg and didnt call for his head for the most part. This is how I remember it. Majority were happy with him having a pre-season and seeing where we went from there. But a few months in to the season fans weren’t convinced. I remember going to the Ipswich game around November and although we win 2-0. The atmosphere was flat and performed matched. In December we went on a bad run of games and I there were some comments from Bruce. That’s when the fans started to turn. End of Jan Grealish returned and we had a good run of games which led to the Wolves which was a great night. Then we blew it straight after. So I personally think he had the backing of the majority of fans until around December of his second season. After that many were no longer convinced he was right for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted July 25, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: You're where "for the most part" comes in. I remember a poll after his first season and the vast majority of people on here were happy for him to stay and have a crack at promotion with a full preseason under his belt. That's a hell of a lot more than most of our managers got after underperforming. Smith for one, has been getting absolute pelters all year despite being our only manager to actually accomplish something since 1996. He barely got a year. Houllier and McLeish were facing all kinds of abuse in their first and only seasons at the club etc. Bruce got the easiest ride by far. It only became ugly once he failed to win promotion after the second attempt. How big is the sample size that Smith gets pelters though. I thought it was a small amount of very persistent posters. At times this season Ive been unhappy with Smith. I wanted him out after one match (I was emotional) but I have always liked and always wanted him to succeed. Imo Bruce copped far more abuse from a wider amount of people, but I guess that opinion is subjective and without going through thousands of posts analytically you can't say for sure either way. Anyway we are staying up and finishing top 10 next season so this will all be forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 hours ago, VillaJ100 said: It's really not. He was largely pathetic and you were constantly shitting it when he was playing as he always had a terminal error in him. He improved towards the end but it wasn't hard to. Just look at the Whelan thread at all the clangers and piss poor performances he put in. And the most ringing endorsement his time was over - despite this upturn in form he was dropped for the play off final for Hourihane which was a great call. Again, as others have said - wrong. Whelan was excellent in our promotion push and I imagine many on here will remember him as a good pro who helped us get promoted towards the end of his career. We were right to let him go, albeit I do sometimes think there wouldn’t be much between him and Nakamba! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, TRO said: The dynamics of the 2 managers reign with us is different.....Bruce had far worse owners to deal with than Dean...but look we have done it to death.....you have your view and I have mine.....Dean admitted he inherited a decent team with the odd exception. I have already, said I wanted Bruce to go, when he did......i don't know what more you want. You talk about 'its always excuses' with Dean but during the last few weeks have come up with a whole host of them to protect Bruce. Fact is, Dean has achieved a whole load more than Bruce as our manager. This is fact. This is despite having to sort out the 'long term mess' left by Bruce last summer. Yet you consistently chose to protect Bruce nearly right until the bitter end and you've given Smith little to no time at all. This is fact. I firmly believe that if we stay up Sunday, it's ONE OF the best achievements any manager has had as a manager of AVFC in the premier league. To go on a record breaking winning streak, get promoted, build a whole squad for relatively cheap, make a cup final and then keep us up.... This would be a genuinely incredible achievement in my opinion. Edited July 25, 2020 by Mjvilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 6 hours ago, briny_ear said: I think that's probably the most nonsensical statement I have ever read on Villatalk! Bruce was generally vilified on here almost from the word go - quite a lot of it unpleasantly personal abuse. He got us into the playoff places, we lost narrowly - he was written of as a failure. Smith got us into the playoff places, he won narrowly. He was hailed as a hero - such is life, the victors write the histories. He has faltered badly in the premier league and the excuses have flowed - he didn't pick the squad, Suso did, the squad are all useless, and so on... About right? I'm talking about one forum user in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: Again, as others have said - wrong. Whelan was excellent in our promotion push and I imagine many on here will remember him as a good pro who helped us get promoted towards the end of his career. We were right to let him go, albeit I do sometimes think there wouldn’t be much between him and Nakamba! Excellent in promotion push... Only to then almost torpedo the whole thing by laying off Gayle to score in the semi final. Honestly he was either poor or shit or did a huge blunder in about a third to half of the games he played. Like I said just look at his thread. A few half decent games towards the end doesn't make up for it. He's at Fleetwood. He's a league one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) I cant think of a bigger game in our premier league history than tomorrow. This game is absolutely massive for us. Its literally ecstasy or catastrophe Edited July 25, 2020 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I cant think of a bigger game in our premier league history than tomorrow. This game is absolutely massive for us. Its literally ecstasy or catastrophe As someone said earlier I'm confident but never underestimate the ability for villa to stab you in the heart. After fighting back from near certain death it would be really painful. If we'd have just got ONE POINT against Bournemouth or Watford never got the fluke of the decade v Liverpool we'd be practically home and dry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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