Generic Virus Thread

[rodders0223]

Went for my normal saturday morning Jog at 9am. Never seen so many cars on the road at that time.

Where y'all motherfuckets going? If it is to beat the queues at Sainsburys then just go any night of the week as I do. It is dead and the shelves are a stocked a plenty.

 

Eejits.

Edited April 11, 2020 by rodders0223

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Aside from PPE, we don’t have enough ventilators still and we’re having to source and fly them in from wherever we can get them (random locations). What other vital kit does the NHS not have enough!? Do they have enough of anything!? 

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

I get all that, but I ask why they are not attempting to collect care home data the same day - not community deaths, or lagging cases outside hospitals, but at care homes. France can do it, why can we not? It strikes me they don't want to count care homes because they don't want to talk about care homes (because they are the last priority and seriously under protected with PPE), they don't want to count NHS staff deaths, because they don't want to talk about NHS staff deaths (because they should be the first priority and they are seriously under protected with PPE). They do want to talk about Boris Johnson's recovery, like at all times. 

Maybe. But they're not hiding it. They've been open about it and said the reason is there's a lag in the data. They've been looking at the NHS figures all along so it's a good measure of trends and changes in data.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Aside from PPE, we don’t have enough ventilators still and we’re having to source and fly them in from wherever we can get them (random locations). What other vital kit does the NHS not have enough!? Do they have enough of anything!? 

When you consider how the NHS has been run and funded for the past decade you’d have to think no, they probably do not have an adequate amount of anything.

Except an abundance of wasteful middle management and administrative staff.

Edited April 11, 2020 by bannedfromHandV

[tinker]

2 hours ago, brommy said:

It’s possible to have enough now but need manufacturing to increase to support the forthcoming increasing demand.

We haven't got enough now, doctors, nurses and paramedics are all telling us this at every opportunity they have , and they have limited opportunity at that.

Any of the population who watch these daily briefings must be questioning whats going on with all the normal bullshit questions that are answered with the normal bullshit answers .

Once this is all over we need a change. It should start with good honest journalism pointing out problems and asking questions that hurt. But it wont , At the moment we have a press who are scared to upset anyone . 

It will need to start at grass roots level, maybe a celebration of the NHS day that we can all turn out and show these god awful politician's, all parties, that we demand a change in direction .

[sharkyvilla]

10 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Aside from PPE, we don’t have enough ventilators still and we’re having to source and fly them in from wherever we can get them (random locations). What other vital kit does the NHS not have enough!? Do they have enough of anything!? 

To be fair, wouldn't it be a bit of a waste of money and resources to have enough ventilators lying around unused on the off chance something like this happened? 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Indeed. I’d have thought we’d have enough by now/at this stage, but maybe that was an unrealistic expectation. 

[bickster]

19 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Except an abundance of wasteful middle management and administrative staff

Middle management, yes, way too many and lots of them are sodding useless. Administrative staff, not so, they don't have enough. Admin do the stuff that helps frontline staff get on with their jobs insead of doing the admin. I often see administration saff lumped in with middle management and they really shouldn't be, there aren't actually enough admin staff. The middle management issue is partly a product of trusts and running them like businesses. The same issue results in not enough admin staff as its always the admin staff that get cut to make savings. The whole system is effing stupid

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

I get all that, but I ask why they are not attempting to collect care home data the same day - not community deaths, or lagging cases outside hospitals, but at care homes. France can do it, why can we not? It strikes me they don't want to count care homes because they don't want to talk about care homes (because they are the last priority and seriously under protected with PPE), they don't want to count NHS staff deaths, because they don't want to talk about NHS staff deaths (because they should be the first priority and they are seriously under protected with PPE). They do want to talk about Boris Johnson's recovery, like at all times. 

Yes, this seems right. They are trying to avoid - for understandable reasons, but we don't have to play along - revealing that they are turning care homes into de facto hospices and care home workers (usually on minimum wage) into palliative carers. Our ability to go through the sorts of death numbers that were bringing northern Italy to its knees is entirely dependent on this decision not to take care home residents into hospital, and there should be a national debate about whether we're happy for this to be the decision we're taking on this.

[Davkaus]

Agreed completely, @bickster, same in other services as well. Why would you want your nurses, doctors, or police spending their time on menial admin work that could be done by anyone else while they actually put their skills and training to use?

[bannedfromHandV]

7 minutes ago, bickster said:

Middle management, yes, way too many and lots of them are sodding useless. Administrative staff, not so, they don't have enough. Admin do the stuff that helps frontline staff get on with their jobs insead of doing the admin. I often see administration saff lumped in with middle management and they really shouldn't be, there aren't actually enough admin staff. The middle management issue is partly a product of trusts and running them like businesses. The same issue results in not enough admin staff as its always the admin staff that get cut to make savings. The whole system is effing stupid

Give me a choice between cutting middle management or admin staff and it’s the former all day long.

If IT systems and processes were more modern I’ll wager a lot of admin work may be possible to automate, but I can’t claim to have intricate knowledge of their IT setup.

[DCJonah]

52 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I wonder what the media reaction would be if we now had a Corbyn led Labour government that was seeing almost 1k deaths a day, with tens of thousands more to come, whose leader had found himself in hospital weeks after bigging himself up for shaking the hands of people with coronavirus.

I have a sneaky suspicion Corbyn would not be being lauded as some kind of hero and the headlines would be very different. The media in this country is a joke the way they have reported this whole crisis from failing to acknowledge we went into this ill prepared, due in part to 10 years of Tory austerity, to lauding as a hero a man who is leading an inadequate response whilst promoting irresponsible, in fact life threatening, behaviour.

Yep, completely agree. I think the decade of under funding would be ignored and they'd be heavily criticised. 

It amazes me how little is written about the fact this government have been in power for 10 **** years  

[chrisp65]

19 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

To be fair, wouldn't it be a bit of a waste of money and resources to have enough ventilators lying around unused on the off chance something like this happened? 

Absolutely would be a waste of money to have enough provisions of everything to be ready for any emergency.

If the next pandemic arrives in a week and it causes sores, we won’t have bandages for 1,000,000 people. We shouldn’t be storing a million bandages just in case.

But, if we know in January, we are going to need bandages for 1,000,000 people in April, I’d probably get some early orders in, maybe speak directly to the manufacturers and tell them the army will be along in an hour to help them ramp up production 24/7 and we’ll be taking their methods and replicating it elsewhere and we will sort out royalties and profits and copyright at a later date.

What we shouldn’t do, is wait a couple of months, then approach a Singapore billionaire tory party donor to invent a new sort of bandage that will hopefully be ready a few weeks after we need them.

 

[foreveryoung]

The paperwork is a big issue. With a decent linked computer system it could probably save millions on admin staff. There are still hundreds of staff filling in paperwork manually. Then it is passed to someone else yo do it again, then passed to someone to put into computer files.

 

Didnt they waste £150 million on a new computer system that didnt work an failed.

Edited April 11, 2020 by foreveryoung

[chrisp65]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

The paperwork is a big issue. With a decent linked computer system it could probably save millions on admin staff. There are still hundreds of staff filling in paperwork manually. Then it is passed to someone else yo do it again, then passed to someone to put into computer files.

What’s the current wage bill for admin staff?

[Davkaus]

3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

 

If IT systems and processes were more modern I’ll wager a lot of admin work may be possible to automate, but I can’t claim to have intricate knowledge of their IT setup.

Typically outdated and hugely fragmented.

An insane amount of stuff is still done on paper, and it still blows my mind that each Trust is run like it's own little kingdom, specifying and procuring their own bespoke IT systems instead of there being a common NHS package used across the country. The amount of duplication and waste by it not being centrally managed seems crazy to me.

The national programme was a mismanaged failure, but it's absolutely necessary IMO.

[foreveryoung]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

What’s the current wage bill for admin staff?

I would include middle management aswell obviously, if you see my previous posts I know for a fact managers are being paid 100k plus for doing next to fook all.

The titles of some management seem made up out of thin air.

[HanoiVillan]

Amazed how many experts there are on health care system administration on this forum, y'all should set up a consultancy or something.

[HanoiVillan]

LOL, 'Taxi for Moran!'

 

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Amazed how many experts there are on health care system administration on this forum, y'all should set up a consultancy or something.

Experts that don’t even know the difference between admin support and management consultants.

I **** despair at times.

Lord forbid there should be sufficient staff and sufficient budget. Surely even now there must be a budget we can cut without knowing what the **** we’re talking about.