Unpopular Opinions

[sne]

Just now, mjmooney said:

OK, I won't. 

I'll let Greta know  

[Xela]

42 minutes ago, sne said:

The best thing you can do as an individual for the environment is to not have (more) children.

World population is predicted to be c11-12 billion by 2100, which most increases coming from developing nations in Africa and South Asia.

I'm not sure Maccy D's banning plastic straws in the UK is going to cancel that out when it comes to the environment. 

[LondonLax]

8 minutes ago, Xela said:

World population is predicted to be c11-12 billion by 2100, which most increases coming from developing nations in Africa and South Asia.

I'm not sure Maccy D's banning plastic straws in the UK is going to cancel that out when it comes to the environment. 

The only way to reduce population is to bring people out of poverty/subsistence and into education and employment. 

Once people don’t need to have multiple children for financial security the birth rate drops below 2 children per couple (i.e a negative rate). 

It follows the same pattern all over the world. The global population will peak at some point this century and start reducing again as more and more of the planet can afford to have fewer than 2 children.

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

The only way to reduce population is to bring people out of poverty/subsistence and into education and employment. 

Once people don’t need to have multiple children for financial security the birth rate drops below 2 children per couple (i.e a negative rate). 

It follows the same pattern all over the world. The global population will peak at some point this century and start reducing again as more and more of the planet can afford to have fewer than 2 children.

Allowing women to participate as equals in society also does a lot.

[Xela]

16 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

The global population will peak at some point this century and start reducing again as more and more of the planet can afford to have fewer than 2 children.

Will it be too late then? We're constantly told we need to act now to save the planet. Allowing it to grow by another 4 or 5 billion in the meantime will surely mean disaster. 

[Seat68]

Stand up wipers are abominations. 

[chrisp65]

52 minutes ago, Xela said:

World population is predicted to be c11-12 billion by 2100, which most increases coming from developing nations in Africa and South Asia.

I'm not sure Maccy D's banning plastic straws in the UK is going to cancel that out when it comes to the environment. 

Has anyone worked out the relative harm of people that are dirt poor having 9 kids, 4 of which die, versus ‘westerners’ having 1.5 kids and driving to Marcy D’s and getting plastic toys and 12 pairs of shoes and leaving the x box on standby?

I don’t know if they have, its not a snarky trick question. I just suspect those straws and everything that goes with them, are at least as much of the problem as Bangladesh might be. All those disguarded gherkins and sauce sachets, on a global scale, 24/7.

I think we can cut our consumption and waste quite a bit whilst telling Sri Lankan’s to have less kids.  

[Seat68]

It all helps doesn't it. It's not me versus a fella from a town in India, it's me doing that little bit that wouldn't ordinarily be done. Me using a paper straw, Me taking my washing.up liquid bottle to be refilled, me walking to the shops instead of driving. It's not going to save the planet by itself but it doesn't harm me to do all of that. 

For clarity I drive a very old motorhome that spews fumes, I eat meat, I go on foreign holidays. I am not a saint. 

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

It all helps doesn't it. It's not me versus a fella from a town in India, it's me doing that little bit that wouldn't ordinarily be done. Me using a paper straw, Me taking my washing.up liquid bottle to be refilled, me walking to the shops instead of driving. It's not going to save the planet by itself but it doesn't harm me to do all of that. 

For clarity I drive a very old motorhome that spews fumes, I eat meat, I go on foreign holidays. I am not a saint. 

Which then spins in to a politics thread, because the whole country is geared up to spend and consume. 

The god of GDP frowns upon reduced consumption.

 

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, Xela said:

Will it be too late then? We're constantly told we need to act now to save the planet. Allowing it to grow by another 4 or 5 billion in the meantime will surely mean disaster. 

What do you mean ‘allowing’? 

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

It all helps doesn't it. It's not me versus a fella from a town in India, it's me doing that little bit that wouldn't ordinarily be done. Me using a paper straw, Me taking my washing.up liquid bottle to be refilled, me walking to the shops instead of driving. It's not going to save the planet by itself but it doesn't harm me to do all of that. 

For clarity I drive a very old motorhome that spews fumes, I eat meat, I go on foreign holidays. I am not a saint. 

We can make it work. We can sustain a population of say 10 billion but it would not be possible to have that many people enjoying the typical western lifestyle. 

Whether it is a technological solution or a significant shift in lifestyle something is going to have to change to make it work.  

[Xela]

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

What do you mean ‘allowing’? 

I think you are reading too much into the word. I meant as a collective human race. 

[HanoiVillan]

19 minutes ago, Xela said:

I think you are reading too much into the word. I meant as a collective human race. 

Sure, but it's a relevant question to ask though, isn't it. There's absolutely nothing we can do to stop the vast majority of those children being born, other than mass murder on an unprecedented scale, so it kind of doesn't matter whether they will contribute more or fewer emissions than we do. We know we need to massively reduce emissions, which will involve huge changes to how advanced economies are structured. That's all that matters.

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

There's absolutely nothing we can do to stop the vast majority of those children being born

We could outlaw the Catholic Church as a danger to society 

Not entirely serious but they do cause a f***ton of the overpopulation problem across the world, whether it be within their religion or by their missionary work

[Dr_Pangloss]

15 minutes ago, bickster said:

We could outlaw the Catholic Church as a danger to society 

Not entirely serious but they do cause a f***ton of the overpopulation problem across the world, whether it be within their religion or by their missionary work

Religion propagates the argument that contraception is sinful. If religion didn't exist, which would incidentally make the world a much better place, then it's likely that growth rates would be lower in a number of countries.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Religion propagates the argument that conception is sinful..

Where’d you get that from then?

 

As it happens, I think anti biotic resistance might help sort out the population growth. Be interesting to see what a 50/50 chance of survival might do to educated secular views on how many kids to have.

[HanoiVillan]

32 minutes ago, bickster said:

We could outlaw the Catholic Church as a danger to society 

Not entirely serious but they do cause a f***ton of the overpopulation problem across the world, whether it be within their religion or by their missionary work

 

25 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Religion propagates the argument that contraception is sinful. If religion didn't exist, which would incidentally make the world a much better place, then it's likely that growth rates would be lower in a number of countries.

To be clear, you're both absolutely right, but 'eliminate religion' is not a realistic policy option in the next few years.

[Xela]

25 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Anything with more than 3 likes should be deleted from the thread.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Religion propagates the argument that contraception is sinful. If religion didn't exist, which would incidentally make the world a much better place, then it's likely that growth rates would be lower in a number of countries.

And yet 4 of the top 5 populous countries in the world aren't catholic... 

[bickster]

Just now, villa4europe said:

And yet 4 of the top 5 populous countries in the world aren't catholic... 

Well the first point is that the Catholic Church's reach isn't limited to Catholic countries, their missionary work is hugely irresponsible and destructive in huge swathes of Africa for example

And Secondly, its not just catholicism that is against contraception thare are sects, many large ones, that are against contraception in most of the major religions of the world, including Protestantism. The Catholics are just about the worst of them but there are others too