The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[StefanAVFC]

A conscience vote means nothing in FPTP

May as well piss on your ballot

[Demitri_C]

Another hung parliament guaranteed.

[HanoiVillan]

45 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

A conscience vote means nothing in FPTP

May as well piss on your ballot

That isn't true.

[Wainy316]

I’ve had two leaflets through already from the Fib Dems telling me they’re best placed to beat the Tories.  In my constituency in 2017 they had 14.5% of the vote to Labour’s 26.9%.

A lost cause anyway as the Tories will walk it here but still incredibly dishonest.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Wainy316

[snowychap]

 

[HanoiVillan]

 

[Dodgyknees]

5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

No.

You vote for whoever has the best chance to beat the Tories in your constituency.

Yep, I'm Labour, but it looks like Greens are the best bet here so get my vote. Tories out above everything else.

[bickster]

11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Surely if you want to remain and that is your main priority. You have to vote labour?

If you want to remain above all else you have to vote for the candidate in your constituency that will achieve that. For exmple, if I lived in Hall Green, the absolutely rock solid safe Labour seat inhabited by Roger Godsiff, I'd be voting for the LibDem or the Green (3rd and 4th place in 2017). Labour would still win the seat and a Leave voting MP would be elected but there's no way I could support that.

This election more than any other should bring it home that you vote for a candidate not a party

[bickster]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

The tactical anti-Brexit vote in Walsall North would be Labour. The conscience vote would be whoever you think is best for the country.

WOuld it? Who is the candidate? What is their Brexit stance?

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

WOuld it? Who is the candidate? What is their Brexit stance?

I think it’s Gill Ogilvie and her stance is to a negotiate a ‘credible’ deal to leave.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

8 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

I’ve had two leaflets through already from the Fib Dems telling me they’re best placed to beat the Tories.  In my constituency in 2017 they had 14.5% of the vote to Labour’s 26.9%.

A lost cause anyway as the Tories will walk it here but still incredibly dishonest.

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think it’s Gill Ogilvie and her stance is to a negotiate a ‘credible’ deal to leave.

You wouldn't have a clue from her website, though the banner headline of "A voice for Walsall North not Westminster" is instantly irritating given that she gives every impression of being a Union / Party Automaton

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Tbf they all do this bollocks

[ml1dch]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Tbf they all do this bollocks

Here's a particularly egregious example:

You wouldn't think he was running as an independent, due to having the whip removed because of his trial next year for multiple sexual assault charges...

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

If you want to remain above all else you have to vote for the candidate in your constituency that will achieve that. For exmple, if I lived in Hall Green, the absolutely rock solid safe Labour seat inhabited by Roger Godsiff, I'd be voting for the LibDem or the Green (3rd and 4th place in 2017). Labour would still win the seat and a Leave voting MP would be elected but there's no way I could support that.

This election more than any other should bring it home that you vote for a candidate not a party

 

1 hour ago, bickster said:

WOuld it? Who is the candidate? What is their Brexit stance?

Again, you're describing voting your conscience, not tactical voting. I'm not denying that the former is legitimate, I'm saying that they are not the same thing (though they can lead to the same decision in some circumstances). 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

Again, you're describing voting your conscience, not tactical voting. I'm not denying that the former is legitimate, I'm saying that they are not the same thing (though they can lead to the same decision in some circumstances). 

I am describing tactical voting, if the tactic is to stop Brexit, a person who normally votes Labour would not vote for Godsiff in Hall Green because his voting record proves he's a Leaver. you would be tactically voting against your conscience on many other issues to deliver an MP that will vote the way you want on your over-riding issue. That is tactical voting.

[ml1dch]

7 minutes ago, bickster said:

I am describing tactical voting, if the tactic is to stop Brexit, a person who normally votes Labour would not vote for Godsiff in Hall Green because his voting record proves he's a Leaver. you would be tactically voting against your conscience on many other issues to deliver an MP that will vote the way you want on your over-riding issue. That is tactical voting.

Perhaps. But if your vote helps to return an MP who will vote for Conservative Brexit policy rather than Labour Brexit policy, how successful have your tactics been?

[HanoiVillan]

13 minutes ago, bickster said:

I am describing tactical voting, if the tactic is to stop Brexit, a person who normally votes Labour would not vote for Godsiff in Hall Green because his voting record proves he's a Leaver. you would be tactically voting against your conscience on many other issues to deliver an MP that will vote the way you want on your over-riding issue. That is tactical voting.

No, it isn't. In your first post you specifically stated that your hypothetical voter could do this because Birmingham Hall Green is a 'rock solid safe Labour seat'. In other words, your voter has the luxury of voting for the candidate he prefers on the issue that matters most to him (the Liberal Democrat) precisely because he 'knows' (more accurately 'believes') that it will make no difference to the outcome in his constituency. Voting for somebody you know is going to lose isn't tactical, and nor is privileging one policy preference (stopping Brexit) over another policy preference (whatever else he likes about Labour). 

Edited November 6, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[cyrusr]

2 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Perhaps. But if your vote helps to return an MP who will vote for Conservative Brexit policy rather than Labour Brexit policy, how successful have your tactics been?

But if you vote in a Labour MP which assists in a Labour majority and/or Labour led coalition, then there won't be a Conservative Brexit policy to vote for surely? If the aim is to stop the Conservative Brexit policy, then the vote against Tories, even if that is a leave leaning Labour MP. At the end of it all, even Labour will be offering an option to Remain. Only Tories/NF Party are refusing to leave without a further referendum. 

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Perhaps. But if your vote helps to return an MP who will vote for Conservative Brexit policy rather than Labour Brexit policy, how successful have your tactics been?

In my example both leading candidates vote for Conservative Brexit Strategy