The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[ml1dch]

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

In my example both leading candidates vote for Conservative Brexit Strategy

Unless I'm missing something, he seems to have voted pretty solidly along official Labour Party lines. He wasn't one of the 19 who voted for Johnson's DWA.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Unless I'm missing something, he seems to have voted pretty solidly along official Labour Party lines. He wasn't one of the 19 who voted for Johnson's DWA.

In that case I have him wrong, I always assumed he was, my error

[Xann]

[bickster]

Sorry but that is nonsense, there are three way marginals

[Demitri_C]

Lib dems all the way for me. If you want real change vote lib dems. Enough of failing conservative and Labour governments.

Lib dems are pro eu wishing to revoke brexit and that for me is enough to get my vote. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Demitri_C

[LondonLax]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Lib dems all the way for me. If you want real change vote lib dems. Enough of failing conservative and Labour governments.

Lib dems are pro eu wishing to revoke brexit and that for me is enough to get my vote. 

Are the Lib Dem’s actually a chance of winning in your area?

[StefanAVFC]

We've been through this, but voting Lib Dem in your constituency may as well be voting Tory.

A vote to stop Brexit is a vote for Labour in Enfield North.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, cyrusr said:

But if you vote in a Labour MP which assists in a Labour majority and/or Labour led coalition, then there won't be a Conservative Brexit policy to vote for surely? If the aim is to stop the Conservative Brexit policy, then the vote against Tories, even if that is a leave leaning Labour MP. At the end of it all, even Labour will be offering an option to Remain. Only Tories/NF Party are refusing to leave without a further referendum. 

This is the correct take. 

[Mic09]

13 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

A conscience vote means nothing in FPTP

May as well piss on your ballot

People have ideals, beliefs, philosophies and things they live by.

Regardless of the political situation in the country and the voting system, to ridicule people's right to vote for the person they believe to be representing those ideas is poor going. 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

People have ideals, beliefs, philosophies and things they live by.

Regardless of the political situation in the country and the voting system, to ridicule people's right to vote for the person they believe to be representing those ideas is poor going. 

Where am I ridiculing? I'm criticising FPTP. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, Mic09 said:

People have ideals, beliefs, philosophies and things they live by.

Regardless of the political situation in the country and the voting system, to ridicule people's right to vote for the person they believe to be representing those ideas is poor going. 

Yes, this.

It's also just not completely true, even as a descriptor of the electoral system we have now. Just taking 2017 as an example, nobody really expected Labour to win in Canterbury, but they did, because at the end of the day, most people vote for the party they want to win. Of course it's true that most seats don't change hands, but if you as a voter ever want them to do so in the future, at some point you have to vote for the party you actually want. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Where am I ridiculing? I'm criticising FPTP. 

If that's the case then I apologise, it's easy to misinterpret intentions on an online forum  

As you must appreciate ''conscience vote=pissing on the ballot'' does have an element of ridicule. 

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

If that's the case then I apologise, it's easy to misinterpret intentions on an online forum  

As you must appreciate ''conscience vote=pissing on the ballot'' does have an element of ridicule. 

Maybe if you have a lack of reading comprehension ability.

The point was pretty clear. I even stated that I was talking about FPTP in the original post.

Should I have said 'may as well throw your vote away in such a unrepresentative system?' Would it have been clearer?

Edited November 6, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes, this.

It's also just not completely true, even as a descriptor of the electoral system we have now. Just taking 2017 as an example, nobody really expected Labour to win in Canterbury, but they did, because at the end of the day, most people vote for the party they want to win. Of course it's true that most seats don't change hands, but if you as a voter ever want them to do so in the future, at some point you have to vote for the party you actually want. 

Fair point, if the original post was ridiculing in any way.

It was a scathing criticism of the totally unrepresentative voting system we live in. 

I may as well piss on my ballot and put it in the box in Lichfield.

[Xann]

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

Sorry but that is nonsense

Splitting opposition to the Tory filth is nonsense.

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

... but if you as a voter ever want them to do so in the future, at some point you have to vote for the party you actually want. 

This isn't the election to show my dissatisfaction with the major parties.

Will be returning to the Greens, if we manage to stop the Eton boys and suited psychopaths giving everything to their chums and taking the rights away that previous generations fought for.

[fightoffyour]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Fair point, if the original post was ridiculing in any way.

It was a scathing criticism of the totally unrepresentative voting system we live in. 

I may as well piss on my ballot and put it in the box in Lichfield.

The only hope is that by voting for the biggest opposition every election, they may gain enough extra votes that one day the Tory majority won't be so high that people think it's a foregone conclusion.

Edited November 6, 2019 by fightoffyour

[bickster]

29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is the correct take. 

19 Labour MPs say it isn't

 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

Perhaps. But if your vote helps to return an MP who will vote for Conservative Brexit policy rather than Labour Brexit policy, how successful have your tactics been?

this is the bit I'm struggling with for all those people advocating tactical voting  ...if you want to stop Brexit then the only vote is a Lib Dem vote , pure and simple  , the "they can't win" in my seat doesn't hold water imo ..

Our last council election we voted in 2 independents , erasing the Tory vote of over 50% away  , why ?  , because the independent candidates are proposing to fight the decimation of our village that the Tory candidates were not ... a tactical vote might have got them out , but would have just returned another councillor in favour of the same outcome    .. now we have people actively campaigning to stop the decimation .

All tactical voting will do is push Corbyn closer to number 10 , which of course is exactly the intention of most people advocating the tactical vote via social media

[StefanAVFC]

[Rodders]

3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

this is the bit I'm struggling with for all those people advocating tactical voting  ...if you want to stop Brexit then the only vote is a Lib Dem vote , pure and simple  , the "they can't win" in my seat doesn't hold water imo ..

 

it comes down in part to a pragmatic attitude to numbers of likely voters to change their mind, which is admittedly very hard to predict in this kind of election, where one single issue can cross parties in terms of it's influence, so perhaps the safe seat dictum isn't as strong a factor, but even so, the previous election happened post the Brexit vote, so you can argue the numbers up for grabs this time around aren't likely to be huge. In the seats where the Lib Dem is c15-20k+ behind say Labour, it just seems awfully optimistic to vote Lib Dems in those scenarios. I.e. a case where labour and tory are separately by only a couple of thousand or so one way or another. It comes down to whether you trust enough remainers will also abandon labour or tory to vote lib dem, or the 'safer' option being to go for the nearest contender - i.e  labour.