Marvelous Nakamba

[Nigel]

On 24/03/2022 at 07:06, OutByEaster? said:

At this point, and I know this will sound harsh, I'd be looking to develop Iroegbunam over Nakamba. 

It'll be good to have him fit and he brings another option, but I don't think he starts games and given the choice, I'd keep Tim on the bench.

Ive liked this because i like the idea of developing Tim.

However it could be argued that the team as a whole could benefit more from playing with a similar style player than will be playing the role next season.

Its also worth noting that Nakamba may well be good enough, we just need to give him a bit more time.

I think both will be involved, which will probably mean Sanson drops off the bench.

[sne]

7 minutes ago, JPJCB said:

He was our best player under gerrard until his injury? He suits the style we want to play these days. If he was fit he’s a guaranteed starter for me in the 6 role 

I don't think he was, but he put in some very solid 6-7/10 performances and did a good job defensively. Was great against Palace thou

[JPJCB]

1 hour ago, sne said:

I don't think he was, but he put in some very solid 6-7/10 performances and did a good job defensively. Was great against Palace thou

Ok then…

https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/03/marvelous-nakamba-avfc-player-of-the-month/

[sne]

1 minute ago, JPJCB said:

Ok then…

https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/december/03/marvelous-nakamba-avfc-player-of-the-month/

Nice. But if you look around at the match ratings for those games he's getting 6's and 7's on every site. And that's how I remember it as well. Konsa, McGinn, Martinez and others all get higher scores most games.

Overall he did well thou with the Palace game as the highlight.

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

Nice. But if you look around at the match ratings for those games he's getting 6's and 7's on every site. And that's how I remember it as well. Konsa, McGinn, Martinez and others all get higher scores most games.

Overall he did well thou with the Palace game as the highlight.

Yeah he was fine and wasn't bad or spectacular. I think people built him up when we went on a poor run and wanted to have a dig at Luiz 

[VillaParkAvenue]

Nakamba worked well in the early Gerrard games where Villa focused on keeping a tight shape. He played much the same way as in his previous 60 games or so for the club, imo.

Useful player and it’s good to have him back, but he may not play much next season if Villa upgrades in his position.

What did work pretty well though was a couple of games, also early Gerrard, where Nakamba and Dougie both played. Nakamba as break-up guy and Doug more midfield playmaker. I don’t think Smith played them together often?

Edited March 26, 2022 by VillaParkAvenue

[VillaChris]

11 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Hmm, I think if they're talking about an U23 game to get him back, he'll probably play an hour for the U23's on the 1st, I don't think they'd then risk him for the bench the next day, then I guess depending if he trains well he might make the bench for Spurs or maybe play in another U23 game. 

Ah right thought under 23s game might be on the Tues-Weds but guess most of ours are playing for their age group national teams.

Yeah probably more likely to be sub for Spurs and then got another two weeks to get him ready to start at Leicester.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Yeah he was fine and wasn't bad or spectacular. I think people built him up when we went on a poor run and wanted to have a dig at Luiz 

The role we needed, and still need filling, doesn't require " spectacular ".

DMs are hardly going to be getting ratings of 8, 9 and 10 because it's not a glamorous job.

I know Luiz has a die hard fan club on here, but the fact is, Nakamba simply performed/performs as a pure Defensive Midfielder, more effectively than Luiz, in alot of the systems we have played.

Even though Luiz is the better all round footballer . It's got nothing to do with people wanting to " have a dig at Luiz " during the period, as many of us have expressed the same sentiment for years.

If we were generally a team which kept possession of the ball better, that might be different.

Edited March 26, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sne]

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The role we needed, and still need filling, doesn't require " spectacular ".

DMs are hardly going to be getting ratings of 8, 9 and 10 because it's not a glamorous job.

I know Luiz has a die hard fan club on here, but the fact is, Nakamba simply performed/performs as a pure Defensive Midfielder, more effectively than Luiz, in alot of the systems we have played.

Even though Luiz is the better all round footballer . It's got nothing to do with people wanting to " have a dig at Luiz " during the period, as many of us have expressed the same sentiment for years.

If we were generally a team which kept possession of the ball better, that might be different.

Then again Gerrard supposedly want us to be possession based and build from the back so on the ball skill is a fairly important skill even for the DCM. Which is where Nakamba fails sadly.

Luiz is not a ideal player in the lone DCM role but with Nakamba we are not going to keep the ball or build from the back. Them together in a double pivot (insert gif) is OK thou but leaves Ramsey or McGinn on the bench.

All comes down to if you focus on the on the ball or off the ball stuff. Neither is perfect. I'd favor Luiz against most sides, others do not.

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Then again Gerrard supposedly want us to be possession based and build from the back so on the ball skill is a fairly important skill even for the DCM. Which is where Nakamba fails sadly.

Luiz is not a ideal player in the lone DCM role but with Nakamba we are not going to keep the ball or build from the back. Them together in a double pivot (insert gif) is OK thou but leaves Ramsey or McGinn on the bench.

All comes down to if you focus on the on the ball or off the ball stuff. Neither is perfect. I'd favor Luiz against most sides, others do not.

Yes, but it depends on the opposition. Take Newcastle and Watford. They allowed us easy possession so CBs and CDM under no pressure. But what Nakamba offers is that way of stopping the counter attack which those teams played against us. They especially targeted out wide attacking the space left behind our full backs.

If you switch to City or Arsenal games, they press high and we need those talented ball players who can receive the ball under pressure and still make the pass. Or can carry ball towards an opponent fixing them and then playing the pass.

[sne]

As I said, against most sides I'd chose Luiz over Nakamaba. Against some I'd use both.

[OutByEaster?]

Again, it might sound harsh, but I struggle to think of a situation in which I'd rather start Nakamba over Luiz and for the remainder of this season, for our future I think we're better off investing time and energy Iroegbanum and keeping him on the bench. I would hope that Tim doesn't end up having to drop out so that Marvelous can take a bench spot.

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Again, it might sound harsh, but I struggle to think of a situation in which I'd rather start Nakamba over Luiz and for the remainder of this season, for our future I think we're better off investing time and energy Iroegbanum and keeping him on the bench. I would hope that Tim doesn't end up having to drop out so that Marvelous can take a bench spot.

 

It’s Iroegbunam. Not easy to spell that name, neither is Chukmuewanka.

[OutByEaster?]

19 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

It’s Iroegbunam. Not easy to spell that name, neither is Chukmuewanka.

I have terrible trouble because at some point I've taught my auto-correct that both Iroegbanum and Iroegbunam are correct! 

 

[OutByEaster?]

Do you keep Nakamba next season?

If we're buying a central midfielder and we keep Luiz, then I think it's a question as to whether we loan out Iroegbunam and keep Nakamba for emergencies, sell Nakamba and keep Iroegbunam for emergencies or sell Nakamba, loan out Iroegbunam and use Chambers or one of the other midfielders in an emergency.

Keeping either of Marvelous or Nakamba as third choice DM isn't great for either of them, appearances will be restricted and there will be times one of them doesn't make the bench.

Personally, I prefer Iroegbanum and I'd let Marvelous go in the summer - Tim could then go on a loan with a recall clause as cover.

 

 

[CVByrne]

27 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Do you keep Nakamba next season?

If we're buying a central midfielder and we keep Luiz, then I think it's a question as to whether we loan out Iroegbunam and keep Nakamba for emergencies, sell Nakamba and keep Iroegbunam for emergencies or sell Nakamba, loan out Iroegbunam and use Chambers or one of the other midfielders in an emergency.

Keeping either of Marvelous or Nakamba as third choice DM isn't great for either of them, appearances will be restricted and there will be times one of them doesn't make the bench.

Personally, I prefer Iroegbanum and I'd let Marvelous go in the summer - Tim could then go on a loan with a recall clause as cover.

 

 

I think there is a benefit to a player who is content to sit on the bench. To get Luiz to sign a new deal he'll likely want to know what Gerrard wants from him. He'll want to play 8 next season and knows JJ is clearly just going to get better and McGinn is a favourite of Gerrard. 

I think plan A for the club is Luiz signs and we alter the 8s depending of the situation and injuries. Sanson is sent on loan. We sign a new CDM and Nakamba is the backup and Tom goes on loan. 

Plan B is Luiz doesn't sign and we sell him and Sanson is our 3rd 8.

 

[OutByEaster?]

I think it's difficult for Nakamba - he's already right on the borderline of becoming our third number six. 

If we then go out and buy one, there's difference between being the back up guy and being the third of fourth choice guy - he won't want to stay here to appear in half the matchday squads and maybe make four or five appearances.

If we buy one (and I think it's pretty clear we will) then I think we'll have to move at least one on. Ideally for me we keep the best of those we can keep, and for me that's Douglas Luiz, but if you asked me right now which of Iroegbunam and Nakamba I'd keep if one had to go, it'd be Iroegbunam.

I'd hope next year we have Doug backing up the new six whilst also competing for games at eight, I'd loan Iroegbunam out and let Nakamba go altogether.

 

[TRO]

On 24/03/2022 at 05:21, VillaParkAvenue said:

When he returns, will it be as the old, mediocre Nakamba, or the recently improved one?

I’d say the difference isn’t that big and that he usually plays more or less the same way: with energy but somewhat lacking in skill.

While he was injured people were bigging him up as some kind of saviour, which may not help him trying to get back to shape. But I expect Gerrard to play him a lot so should be able to get match fit quick.

NO, they was bigging him up as some kind of difference....a difference that some recognise, inc the manager, by all accounts.

[TRO]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it's difficult for Nakamba - he's already right on the borderline of becoming our third number six. 

If we then go out and buy one, there's difference between being the back up guy and being the third of fourth choice guy - he won't want to stay here to appear in half the matchday squads and maybe make four or five appearances.

If we buy one (and I think it's pretty clear we will) then I think we'll have to move at least one on. Ideally for me we keep the best of those we can keep, and for me that's Douglas Luiz, but if you asked me right now which of Iroegbunam and Nakamba I'd keep if one had to go, it'd be Iroegbunam.

I'd hope next year we have Doug backing up the new six whilst also competing for games at eight, I'd loan Iroegbunam out and let Nakamba go altogether.

 

This how I see it.

We have 1 number 6  and possibly 2 just playing there.....that makes up your 3

Tim is an apprentice, for the want of a better word, so his final assessment can be made when he is developed properly.

Marv has shown contrasting performances, but as much as I appreciate his specialist skill set, I don't see him as an Authority in midfield...I don't see him as a dominating force in the middle, controlling games and pulling the strings...I don't see him as the go to midfielder, which is what we want.....we need a leader, to inc defensive nous.

Thats what we need if we have any thoughts of European football...as well as a regular striker of course.

Edited March 26, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Nakamba worked well in the early Gerrard games where Villa focused on keeping a tight shape. He played much the same way as in his previous 60 games or so for the club, imo.

Useful player and it’s good to have him back, but he may not play much next season if Villa upgrades in his position.

What did work pretty well though was a couple of games, also early Gerrard, where Nakamba and Dougie both played. Nakamba as break-up guy and Doug more midfield playmaker. I don’t think Smith played them together often?

I think he did, at one time, but it wasn't particularly impressive.