Wesley Moraes

[Delphinho123]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Case closed.

Pardon? You do realise this is a discussion forum? 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Delphinho123

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I still think the worst signing we ever made in terms of expectancy and negative impact on a good team and manager was Stan Collymore. But that’s for another topic. 

In todays market Balaban would have been a 30-40 million signing

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Pardon? You do realise this is a discussion forum? 

It wasn't commented as opinion, it was commented as fact, an absolute.

I pointed out that it was was hyperbole and not factual.

Then you both tried to make an argument for why it was factual - and it has now suddenly (rightly) become opinion.

Similarly to "He can't even control a ball, or pass" are not opinions either, it is non factual hyperbole for effect.

You are right, it is a discussion forum, which gives me the right to call people out on their bullsh*t.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

In todays market Balaban would have been a 30-40 million signing

True but Balaban didn’t even play. He cost us a lot of money but he didn’t affect the team as we had other strikers.  Collymore was our missing link to challenge for the title. He played no matter what and stunk the place out eventually getting Little the sack. Gregory was able to drop him as had no obligation to start him.

Going back on topic, it’s unbelievably clear Wesley is struggling. Boy does he need some decent support. I’d consider starting Kodija Saturday.  The other day was the most I’ve seen him run in years. Actually looked quite sharp.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[Tomaszk]

23 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

People should start putting "In my opinion" or probably, or do the research before saying things just for effect.

I take that as implied on every post tbh. People say all sorts of guff 

Wes looks about level with Jordan Bowery, if not worse because his movement is just so bad. He has no natural radar of where he's meant to be even if he's maybe ahead technically. And that is a maybe.

Wes cost more than 40 times more than Bowery. This has been brought into my thoughts of why he's the worst signing we've made.

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

It wasn't commented as opinion, it was commented as fact, an absolute.

I pointed out that it was was hyperbole and not factual.

Then you both tried to make an argument for why it was factual - and it has now suddenly (rightly) become opinion.

Similarly to "He can't even control a ball, or pass" are not opinions either, it is non factual hyperbole for effect.

You are right, it is a discussion forum, which gives me the right to call people out on their bullsh*t.

 

 

Just out of interest, do you rate Wesley?

[LakotaDakota]

35 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I still think the worst signing we ever made in terms of expectancy and negative impact on a good team and manager was Stan Collymore. But that’s for another topic. 

That goal against Atletico was almost worth his fee alone though

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Just out of interest, do you rate Wesley?

We have had this discussion numerous times, within this very thread there will be lots of back and forth between you, others who agree with you, and myself, as well as other who agree with me.

See the difference is I don't speak in absolutes or try to create fact out of fiction.

As a matter of fact if you even go a couple of pages back you will see my comments. lol

However let's just summarise my thoughts, AGAIN.

- Signed for 22 million from Club Brugge - where he was an integral part of a team competing at a high ish (Level) and Champions League. - Has no blame to bare for the price tag they agreed on him. 

- Was scouted by a few top clubs ( Professional scouts and coaching teams), obviously us included, which obviously saw some potential or raw attributes they feel they can turn into something valuable.

- Signed as a 23 year old to a newly promoted club going through a rebuild, in a new country, at a new club, new teammates, new system etc.

- Has played a grand total of 18/19 games with above considered, scored 5 goals.

- Decent performances have come alongside decent all round team performances. Shite performances have usually come alongside tripe all round team performances.

- Has been too weak at times, heading is a weak point, plays too deep most of the time (I partially blame turd team performances, lack of support and system for this)

- Has been generally poor in a few games, looks generally awkward, although has shown when he has the support he is capable of doing things up front.

- Severely lacking confidence.

- Has been thrown in at the deep end, I've said on here multiple times that I don't think anyone would see him make an impact until next season. Should either not be starting, or starting with more support or a system more suited to helping him.

- 50/50 on whether he will come good, have also learned, from my experience as a Villa fan, and football fan in general, that it is naive to write off a player, especially the mitigating circumstances, after this amount of time.

- Could go down as an absolute flop, could also be a revelation.

I can;t say whether I rate him or don't rate him yet, but what I do know is that he is a mammoth of scapegoats, while favourites get an easy ride whilst performing even worse.

 

[Keyblade]

If I didn't know better, judging from VT I would think the season is 18 games long and ends in December. We've been relegated, Dean Smith should be sacked and Wesley is our worst signing since Balaban. It's all been settled just in time for the holidays.

[zab6359]

8 hours ago, Dave-R said:

I don't know, Heaton just waltzes on in as top earner.

It's what you have to pay when you buy from the PL.

[villaluke]

why cant there be an in between? i dont think Wesley has been that great tbh but at the same time dont think hes been that bad as people think and dont always get the stick he gets, dont think he gets the service he needs think bringing in jota could help. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

He gets plenty of service, he's just never in the box. 

Make no mistake, we've not made it easy to impress considering how inconsistent we are, but Wesley our £ 22 million record signing has been absolutely unequivocally utter **** shit. A few moments of defensive duties won't change that. 

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

He gets plenty of service, he's just never in the box. 

Make no mistake, we've not made it easy to impress considering how inconsistent we are, but Wesley our £ 22 million record signing has been absolutely unequivocally utter **** shit. A few moments of defensive duties won't change that. 

This is correct.

It's remarkable how he can be in the wrong place so often. 99% of balls that goes forward or into the box, you just know he's going to be anywhere but there. If he is there like the El Ghazi cross right to him at 0-0 v Southampton, you know he's going to either scuff it.

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, villaluke said:

why cant there be an in between? i dont think Wesley has been that great tbh but at the same time dont think hes been that bad as people think and dont always get the stick he gets, dont think he gets the service he needs think bringing in jota could help. 

Modern football for you, its either something is brilliant or shit nothing is Ok. Not just Wesley, go to Smith, Guilbert, Pitarch thread etc. 

Its childish and embarrassing (this is not just a VT issue, social media is to blame for this crap) 

[Adam2003]

5 hours ago, Zatman said:

Modern football for you, its either something is brilliant or shit nothing is Ok. Not just Wesley, go to Smith, Guilbert, Pitarch thread etc. 

Its childish and embarrassing (this is not just a VT issue, social media is to blame for this crap) 

Not just football either, everything. From politics to celebrity gameshows.

[Dave-R]

11 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

This is correct.

It's remarkable how he can be in the wrong place so often. 99% of balls that goes forward or into the box, you just know he's going to be anywhere but there. If he is there like the El Ghazi cross right to him at 0-0 v Southampton, you know he's going to either scuff it.

Now I don't think that's a fair comment at all considering our Wingers are equally to blame. Our Wingers are absoloute rubbish at whipping in accurate crosses to our solo striker, they just never reach anywhere near Wesley and when they do they arnt at the right side of Wesley so then it makes the lad looks me he's not doing his job.

It really has baffled me at the majority of crosses being put in that there is hardly anyone ever there, either there's a timing problem or they are moving to quick that the team can't catch up. The you have to ask yourself why are our attacking players holding back and not getting into the box for the cross.

There is more to this than just saying it's Wesley's fault, to be honest I'm sick of this whole scapegoat business from fans, it's a collective fault and everyone in the team isn't doing something they should be doing.

Wesley would be much better if he actually had something delivered right. You only have to look at other teams to see how there striker/strikers are being serviced compared to ours. Even Southampton destroyed us and made us look like total amateurs at servicing attackers.

 

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, Dave-R said:

Now I don't think that's a fair comment at all considering our Wingers are equally to blame. Our Wingers are absoloute rubbish at whipping in accurate crosses to our solo striker, they just never reach anywhere near Wesley and when they do they arnt at the right side of Wesley so then it makes the lad looks me he's not doing his job.

It really has baffled me at the majority of crosses being put in that there is hardly anyone ever there, either there's a timing problem or they are moving to quick that the team can't catch up. The you have to ask yourself why are our attacking players holding back and not getting into the box for the cross.

There is more to this than just saying it's Wesley's fault, to be honest I'm sick of this whole scapegoat business from fans, it's a collective fault and everyone in the team isn't doing something they should be doing.

Wesley would be much better if he actually had something delivered right. You only have to look at other teams to see how there striker/strikers are being serviced compared to ours. Even Southampton destroyed us and made us look like total amateurs at servicing attackers.

 

The crosses always seemed to reach Tammy though. How bizarre. 

[Guest av1]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

The crosses always seemed to reach Tammy though. How bizarre. 

You forgot we are now playing PL teams every week rather than Rotherham. How bizarre. 

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

The crosses always seemed to reach Tammy though. How bizarre. 

Championship vs Premier League....that’s a poor argument!

 

 

[lexicon]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

Modern football for you, its either something is brilliant or shit nothing is Ok. Not just Wesley, go to Smith, Guilbert, Pitarch thread etc. 

Its childish and embarrassing (this is not just a VT issue, social media is to blame for this crap) 

There has also been this desire to be the on to 'call it' on forums such as this one for a long time now. Creates this weird atmosphere where some seem to hope that a player will fail or discount anything good they do because they don't want to be wrong. Even weirder still are the posters that only come out of the woodwork when we're on a downer.