Ratings & Reactions: PO West Brom v Villa

[Xela]

Never in doubt

[Junxs]

7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

 

agree totally  ... plus dont' forget the handball last night from Dawson on Grealish's shot  ... should have been a pen ..

No, not for me, Dawsons hand was down by his side and not in an unnatural position. 

Personally I think the ref had a good game, I know we want a card for every foul, but thats not how it works.

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Junxs said:

No, not for me, Dawsons hand was down by his side and not in an unnatural position. 

Personally I think the ref had a good game, I know we want a card for every foul, but thats not how it works.

You seem to be in a minority of one on that view of the ref

nobody is demanding a yellow card for every foul but the ref missed so much as has been outlined previously by numerous posters 

[srsmithusa]

my tactical observations / musings.

Why we took so many short corners.  They were playing 5 across the back with three central defenders, all very tall, very strong in the air.  I understand going short to try to change the angles and timing.  But we should have put more shots in from outside the box then.

Crosses:  at least 80% of our crosses landed on the far side of the 18 yard box  (overhit)  This can happen if you're hoping to switch the angles, hit a runner on the weak side (avoiding the 3 big tall goons clogging the middle).  So it may have been deliberate.  but it can also happen when you have too much Adrenalin.  I suspect some of both.

I've not seen anyone else comment on this, but one of my frustrations was how often we rolled the ball slowly to a teammate.  It gave WBA time and opportunity to step in and cut out the passing lane,  which happened far too frequently, or at least it meant our player was already closed down before receiving the ball.   It's one of the reasons we got into so much trouble trying to play out of the back early in the second half.  It's also why many of our attacks, stalled out.  I'm not talking about playing the ball quickly in the sense of one-touch play, but in the sense of hitting the ball with pace.  As I pondered this, to me obvious and alarming trend, I noticed that the balls we hit that went too slowly were always on the ground.   So what causes that?  An overly long turf, or an overly watered pitch.  I've known coaches to deliberately take an opponent out of a strong passing game  by over-watering the pitch so those rolling balls on the ground, die.   it makes the defensive task much easier.  I have no way to know if WBA left the turf a little long or over-watered the pitch, but I did notice that they watered it pretty heavily at halftime and quite a few players lost their footing at different points all over the field.  so I am suspicious at least.

Wembley won't have the "home" groundskeeper on their side.

In the first match, the referee clearly wished to protect the players, especially the "stars"   in this match, the referee clearly wanted to let the players play quite physically.  (witness the no call against Mings that led to their goal, the no card to Brunt for the first heavy tackle on McGinn, and many others.  The problem is,  WBA players are largely Hosses.  Big, strong, physically agressive.  It's much more their style to bully and beat the opponent into submission.  Similar to Junxs, I didn't think he had any particularly horrible calls, and he had several that were very good.  However, the referee's approach to the game gave the WBA game plan an advantage.   

All that tactical pondering aside.  DAMN !  what a match, what a win.  We only need one more.

[Junxs]

53 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

You seem to be in a minority of one on that view of the ref

nobody is demanding a yellow card for every foul but the ref missed so much as has been outlined previously by numerous posters 

Maybe I'm the only one without claret and blue tinted glasses.

I think El Ghazi handballed it and that was mush more of a penalty than Dawsons, though the refs view was blocked so didnt see it

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, Junxs said:

I think El Ghazi handballed it and that was mush more of a penalty than Dawsons, though the refs view was blocked so didnt see it

I didn't think the Dawson one was a penalty, or the El Ghazi one - both could be given, but generally aren't. I thought the stamp on McGinn was a straight red and I thought the tackle just after half time was too, Heghazi got away with murder throughout the game and Johansen should have been booked several times. For me the ref was atrocious - but I do agree on the Dawson penalty.

 

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Maybe I'm the only one without claret and blue tinted glasses.

Sigh

oh well 

[Mic09]

2 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Maybe I'm the only one without claret and blue tinted glasses.

I think El Ghazi handballed it and that was mush more of a penalty than Dawsons, though the refs view was blocked so didnt see it

El Ghazi hit it on the shoulder. And even if it didn't, he had the arm to his body.

As for the Leeds handball, it was unfortunate, unexpected, but there was actually movement of arm towards the ball. Thats a clearer pen to me.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I didn't think the Dawson one was a penalty, or the El Ghazi one - both could be given, but generally aren't. I thought the stamp on McGinn was a straight red and I thought the tackle just after half time was too, Heghazi got away with murder throughout the game and Johansen should have been booked several times. For me the ref was atrocious - but I do agree on the Dawson penalty.

 

I think Dawson clearly did as evidenced by his reaction ... 

The shirt pull for Derby’s penalty today seemed tame compared to the attempted theft of McGinns shirt  yesterday but again I can see both being given ... and not given 

[Junxs]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

El Ghazi hit it on the shoulder. And even if it didn't, he had the arm to his body.

He leaned into it, perhaps trying to chest it so it doesnt matter if his arm was by his side. It definitely wasn't his shoulder, it was around the bicep area. 

 

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I didn't think the Dawson one was a penalty, or the El Ghazi one - both could be given, but generally aren't. I thought the stamp on McGinn was a straight red and I thought the tackle just after half time was too, Heghazi got away with murder throughout the game and Johansen should have been booked several times. For me the ref was atrocious - but I do agree on the Dawson penalty.

 

I don't think that stamp was deliberate, like the Mings "stamp" earlier in the season, it was just accidental. Brunt is not a dirty player, and the refs often go by reputation in these kind of situations. He got sent off for his bad challenges anyway so the ref got that right.

There was one incident with Hegazi where he brought down McGinn and had his shirt, I agree with that.. but it doenst mean the ref was atrocious 

I think the general frustration of us unable to break them down had some fans taking it out on the ref

[mottaloo]

One thing that I forgot to mention until now..........how irritating was that moron with his drum  ?! All bleedin' game, practically 

Small time club - as bad as the time small heath gave those clappers out !

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Junxs said:

I think El Ghazi handballed it and that was mush more of a penalty than Dawsons, though the refs view was blocked so didnt see it

I don't think the ref had a good game... but I do agree with you on these points.

I think El Ghazi got lucky and if Dawson's had been given then they would have rightly felt very hard done by.

[Stevo985]

On 14/05/2019 at 22:47, holteend1982 said:

Well done Jed. 

 

Play like that against Leeds we will get tanked 5 or 6 nil 

How is that relevant?

 

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

10 hours ago, Junxs said:

Maybe I'm the only one without claret and blue tinted glasses.

I think El Ghazi handballed it and that was mush more of a penalty than Dawsons, though the refs view was blocked so didnt see it

I think neither case are a penalty. Inside the box it has to be pretty deliberate and clear to call a penalty IMO. In both cases the arms were in a natural position and you just can't call penalties when the arm isn't 'seeking' the ball. The implications of doing it different would be mental. 

[Junxs]

8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think neither case are a penalty. Inside the box it has to be pretty deliberate and clear to call a penalty IMO. In both cases the arms were in a natural position and you just can't call penalties when the arm isn't 'seeking' the ball. The implications of doing it different would be mental. 

El Ghazi 100% leans into it mate, watch it again, he engineers the contact. He's just lucky the refs view was blocked.

Agree with you on Dawson though

Edited May 16, 2019 by Junxs

[Stevo985]

Yeah agree. El Ghazi leans into it and that's enough to be "deliberate" (or deliberate in terms of how refs interpret that word)

[rjw63]

Just saw Lansbury's dressing room celebration footage...**** hell my school changing rooms in 1977 looked better than that dump. Small time yammers.

[southcoastvillan]

Well done lads! That was a tough test but fully deserved in the end against a team that defended a lot better and more resolutely then their goals against column suggested they might.

Taylor seems to have come in for some stick but I thought he played pretty well. Conner kept the ball ticking over nicely too.

one of the main issues for me was our reluctance to whip the ball into the box quickly and our inability to get past the full backs. We kept turning back into traffic in the middle where the opponent was comfortable. I also thought the game was crying out for Kodja much earlier, with little defending to do he could’ve made the difference having been given more of a run out.

 

RM remains the big weak point lets hope dean has something up his sleeve for that in 10 days time 

[TRO]

On 15/05/2019 at 19:19, Keyblade said:

 

I meant the co-commentator. Hinchcliffe is usually alright with us, but he was surprisingly pretty bad. But the other guy was next level. Worse than Trevor Francis even.

Danny Murphy is King.

[TRO]

On 15/05/2019 at 12:23, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it's outlandish to say that Albion could and should have had another 8-10 cards over the two legs. I genuinely believe that would be a fairer reflection of the play. Johansen could have had four over the two ties, Brunt could have had two of each colour last night. It's all very well other managers and teams talking up the idea of Grealish as a diver or someone who is in the ear of referees - but the result is that he and his teammates are getting kicked all over the park at the moment and getting no protection at all. We absolutely need a stronger referee in the final.

For Albion's part, they can be aggrieved at not getting the penalty at Villa Park, they can have legitimate grumbles about El Ghazi's possible handball, but the Grealish penalty at Villa Park was absolutely nailed on, both sendings off were not just the right decision but both players could already have gone for earlier offences and the general refereeing of the two games meant that they were allowed to play an overly physically style that under other referees they simply wouldn't have gotten away with. There are a couple of decisions they can legitimately be unhappy with - but the weakness of the refereeing in both legs is what kept them in the tie.

I thought their fans were brilliant last night, got right behind the team from the first minute to the last and I thought they defended really well and really intelligently, but they deserved to go out on the lack of ambition they showed over two legs and their approach to the game - Albion have been a footballing side for most of the season, but under the pressure of the big occasion they went full Pulis - Albion fans should be more disappointed about that than they should be in anything else.

I'd expect Shan to go. I know they're in a fair bit of financial trouble and I think they'll be in the championship for a while - which is a pity. Whilst I very much hope we don't have it for a while, it's a derby game with a great atmosphere, a fierce rivalry and none of the idiocy that comes with the morons from the heath. I like the rivalry with the Albion, they're generally okay.

For us, the thing that struck me about last night was how much of a genuine emotional attachment there is between the fans and the players - particularly those players who are only here on loan - when I look at Mings, Tuanzebe and Abraham, I'm struck by how much they seem to be enjoying it here, how much they genuinely seem to be having the time of their lives, how tight the friendships seem to be within the squad, how much they've embraced the club and the pride they have in the shirt. This looks like a club that any player would want to play for - there will be players at other clubs who watched this last night and wondered why their fans don't care about them like that, why their backroom staff don't feel the same passion - being a Villa player looks like the best job in the world. 

That's going to help us next season, whichever league we're in and no matter what else happens they'll be in dressing rooms talking about their time at the Villa for the rest of their lives.

We didn't play well, we're not quite clicking, not quite fluent - but we're determined, there's a steel born of confidence and we keep finding ways to win. Any of the teams in this playoff competition are capable of beating any of the teams in this playoff competition on any given day - there's not a bad team left in it - but I'm not afraid of anyone, we'll give anyone a game and if we do find that fluency, we have the capacity to overpower an opposition. When we're good, we can be very good indeed - the best in the division - when we're bad.....well, when we're bad, we're capable of heroic nights of epic proportion like last night, and that ain't a bad combination.

It's been a season of big games, last chances and heroic characters - one more obstacle remains. 

Bring it on.

 

 

 

 

Very good rendition, as usual.

• I used to be like you,in as much as Albion were ok, but I think Albion have jacked up the "hate Villa "ratchet....beware Blues they are on your coat tails.
• I think Deans Love for Villa is sweeping through Villa like the radiation from Chernobyl.....and its contagious.
• We are not quite clicking and I think its because one or two players are not quite there, In terms of drive and courage.
• Overall we showed great courage in their back yard....but we didn't quite have the quality like Man city, to undo that kind of Fort knox approach to a game.

Edited May 19, 2019 by TRO