Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[TheStagMan]

3 hours ago, Cjay said:

Roberts was a young man under extreme pressure, think its a bit unfair to criticise him to much.

I dont know what Jansson was doing, frustrated but he didnt really try to tackle imo, it was a half hearted attempt.

How about Hourihane for grabbing and apparently punching Klich or McGinn i think it was falling over 1st half to win a pen (something he did i think vs Bristol City to). Or Grealish for trying to get someone booked or sent off?

Could go round and circles, lets not pretend your players are whiter then white.

Bamford will probably get a ban and I'd think so will Hourihane.

Watch the replay cjay - he was standing there and a Leeds player runs up behind him and gives him a bloody good shove in the back. It should have been a pen and you were lucky it wasn't awarded.

[thunderball]

I think Grealish is a bit theatrical and can see it winds up the fans, but when you are fouled as many times as he is he is entitled to make the most of it because he must be sick of it. And they are fouls, or is the suggestion that referees have made over 150 mistakes just observing Grealish this season? It’s binary, it’s a foul or it isn’t so everything else is noise however much of a wind up it is. Grealish certainly plays for fouls as it’s gamesmanship, his style of close control also encourages players to foul him.

I remember Michael Owen having a nailed on penalty shout when fouled in an international match (World Cup, not sure what game). Despite being fouled he sportingly continued and tried to score but didn’t, nor did he get the penalty. The ref was none other than Pierluigi Collina, some would say the worlds best ref. When Owen disputed the call, Collina unashamedly told him “You’ve got to help me by going down to show the world you really were fouled, it would then have been an easy decision”. 

[thunderball]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I get that....but when do we Target players successfully?....I mean that respectfully and objectively, not critically.

Outside of Tuanzebe-Mings and McGinn.....I don't see any of our other players mixing it to any degree, no one getting in opposition faces.....Tammy does and boy we missed that on Sunday, Kodjia was left with bits and pieces because he rarely makes the opposition make mistakes.

Even against Blackburn when we won, I was surprised at how many crosses were allowed to come in, when that happens it becomes a lottery, good job we now have good centre Backs.

 

 

You’re right, and it is levelled at us that we are not nasty enough, we generally aren’t and Leeds seem to drilled to press hard and harass, hence the accusation that all Bielsa’s teams burn out before the seasons end.

I’d prefer to be more cultured, but not sure we have the personnel. I think Davis if fit would have fared better than Kodjia (in hindsight, as I thought Kodjia would give them something to think about but didn’t), I think Jedi probably wouldn’t have the legs and pace to compete for 90 minutes. 

On paper we should have prevailed, we suit a high tempo game and we generally function highly with triangles and movement, but it just didn’t happen. Maybe we were burn out with the effort of ten in a row? A rest for Norwich May suit us, and Derby have enough to give Leeds plenty to think about.

[TRO]

some of the stuff from the media in the aftermath of our game is a joke.

• Murphy on Hourihane...."Is he the only aggressor he saw, there were many in the melee?.....such desperate comments....if anything Bamfords was the most discreditable action....perhaps he didn't see that.
• It was the second time that Leeds refused to kick the ball out during the game, (sure we should play to the whistle),but that was taking the ****
• The referee should discuss with the captains before the game the gentlemanly conduct stance.....and not leave it to chance, it should be agreed with the 2 captains in the ref's presence...Clattenburg talking Rubbish, he knows it's an unwritten rule of fair play....The FA quote "ungentlemanly conduct" as a sin in their rules ....and then some ref's get all high and mighty and quote the rule book.....double bloody standards....it is morally "ungentlemanly conduct"
• To suggest by some pundits that Conor was naive to have kicked the ball out first, is utter one eyed Balderdash.....HE ACTUALLY set the gentlemanly standard for the game....bit rich to then call him out, he was just reacting to injustice.
• Imo Leeds were commendable for their "Gift" but it was only after they realised they had crossed the line morally.....That was their get out of jail card.....and just about everyone's bought it.....In hindsight, I wish we had of refused it.
• It seems like Leeds have come out of this as the victims and us the villains( shabby)......a smart piece of manoeuvering of a bunch seemingly one eyed pundits....seems like Alan Brazil still hasn't got over 1980/81 season.

Edited April 30, 2019 by TRO

[tomav84]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

• The referee should discuss with the captains before the game the gentlemanly conduct stance.....and not leave it to chance, it should be agreed with the 2 captains in the ref's presence...Clattenburg talking Rubbish, he knows it's an unwritten rule of fair play....The FA quote "ungentlemanly conduct" as a sin in their rules ....and then some ref's get all high and mighty and quote the rule book.....double bloody standards....it is morally "ungentlemanly conduct" 

i posted something similar in an earlier page, and it's something i'm highly in favour of. means everyone knows where they stand...i believe they do similar for mankading in cricket, they agree before the match that it's not to be done

[Pelle]

Two days now and I'm kind of over it by now, but there are a few things that I can't get past:

Why the hell didn't they kick out the ball? The situation was nothing. They didn't counter attack, they were in fact not attacking at all when Kodjia went down. They passed the ball backwards a few times then went forward. If they thought he was faking injury to stop their play they're just **** stupid. Had they been on the attack I could've understand their decision not to, but they bloody weren't. Why not put the ball out and then get it back?

I don't blame Roberts as such. He did wrong, no doubt about it, but he's young and trying to make his way into the team and probably a little insecure. I think he meant to put it out but then someone shouted to play on and he didn't dare to go against the others. I mean, if he had put it out he'd probably get more than a few sticks from the other players. If I've understood it right he regretted his actions and appologised to DS after the game. I blame Klich for going on like he did.

I don't know if it was offside or not, but had the linesman been smart he'd seen the situation and called for the offside as it was a close call. It would've been easier to get that thing wrong and I think most would've thought that well, leeds were going on anyway despite pretending to put the ball over the sideline, so no harm done. Then this situation wouldn't have happened at all.

Bamford is a scum.

Haven't seen the Hourihane situation clearly, but it appears to have happened after all this. But if he really punched Klich I think he'd go down like a Bamford on Rohypnol.

Pontus Jansson is the worst kind of scum there is. He pretends to be a hard man, but he goes down so easy. He's a diving hard man, and those are the worst. I like players who play on the edge of what's allowed. I mean take Shaun Teale, he could be really tough and hard and sometimes too tough, but never would he ever cheat and try to fake an injury or something like that. If he was tackled and went down he'd be up in a heartbeat and single that player out for the next opportunity to give him something to think about. Pontus Jansson cries like a **** baby.

The worst part is that I think it was a good game up untill that point, but that totally ruined it for me.

Mings MOTM again, and him and Tuanzebe were class together. Probably the best cd pair in the championship. I hope they stay fit for the remainder of the season.

Next time we play leeds, let's not put the ball over the line even if they lie down bleeding and legs bent in unnormal ways.

[cudoz]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

• Imo Leeds were commendable for their "Gift" but it was only after they realised they had crossed the line morally.....That was their get out of jail card.....and just about everyone's bought it.....In hindsight, I wish we had of refused it.

The skeptic in me thinks that the 'gift' was only given as they had c.20 minutes left against 10 men and may have thought it wouldn't matter.

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

Imo Leeds were commendable for their "Gift" but it was only after they realised they had crossed the line morally.....That was their get out of jail card.....and just about everyone's bought it.....In hindsight, I wish we had of refused it.

This! Part of me would rather we had lost.

However the anger would have continued and there would have been chances of more players sent off. Anger doesn’t help anyone in these situation. 

The equaliser calmed things down a bit. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This! Part of me would rather we had lost.

However the anger would have continued and there would have been chances of more players sent off. Anger doesn’t help anyone in these situation. 

The equaliser calmed things down a bit. 

Since I wrote that.....I feel more strongly that we should have refused the "Gift"

They (Leeds) have come out of this smelling of roses, with everyone outside B6.....We have walked in to a PR ambush.

I really hope we never do this again.....I must say,I even cringed at the time.

Their goal was offside anyway, it should have been disallowed...0-0 would have been the right result.....The officials were shocking.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, thunderball said:

You’re right, and it is levelled at us that we are not nasty enough, we generally aren’t and Leeds seem to drilled to press hard and harass, hence the accusation that all Bielsa’s teams burn out before the seasons end.

I’d prefer to be more cultured, but not sure we have the personnel. I think Davis if fit would have fared better than Kodjia (in hindsight, as I thought Kodjia would give them something to think about but didn’t), I think Jedi probably wouldn’t have the legs and pace to compete for 90 minutes. 

On paper we should have prevailed, we suit a high tempo game and we generally function highly with triangles and movement, but it just didn’t happen. Maybe we were burn out with the effort of ten in a row? A rest for Norwich May suit us, and Derby have enough to give Leeds plenty to think about.

We have players that can be.....but too many who are not.

I don't want our players to be nasty, I want them to be physically competitive, get their foot in and win the ball like John Mcginn...he can't do it all....get their body in the way.

You only have to check on how many crosses we allow to come in, it allows teams back in to the game, with very little effort or creation.

Edited April 30, 2019 by TRO

[ChrisVillan]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have walked in to a PR ambush.

o noes!

[TRO]

2 hours ago, cudoz said:

The skeptic in me thinks that the 'gift' was only given as they had c.20 minutes left against 10 men and may have thought it wouldn't matter.

I think in view of the fact it was the second time they had done it and the aggressive approach they made to the game, it was looking like " Fair Play" was moving away from them and they could feel it....so the gift was a way of redeeming themselves and I think it has worked, Biesla is suddenly the epitome of fair play and British sportsmanship.....funny old game.

It was a PR Master stroke to get the neutrals back on side....I think in hindsight we should have shunned it and retained our dignity.....some will now see us as a bunch of whingers, who have to hide behind fair play.

I am not saying that is the case, its just a view.....I just think some will, particularly the folk who are critical of Jack and Kodjia going to ground, they will seek solace in that.....The " Leeds didn't have to do that" line will gain momentum and we will be left feeling the moaners.

Its ****** me off to be honest, how the tide/view of that game has turned.

Edited April 30, 2019 by TRO

[Rossi]

They kicked the s**t out of some our players and got them self worked up that way, I'm in the view they would not get away with using jack as a target if we were to meet at Wembley. Leeds look a little desperate to me cos they screwed automatc promotion, I less worried of playing them now, if I'm honest I do t think they will make the final

[The Fun Factory]

When all is said and done it is slightly annoying that a mad 5 minutes has probably generated more headlines than Villa's entire 12 game unbeaten run.  Never mind we just keep on what we are doing and just get promoted.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Rossi said:

They kicked the s**t out of some our players and got them self worked up that way, I'm in the view they would not get away with using jack as a target if we were to meet at Wembley. Leeds look a little desperate to me cos they screwed automatc promotion, I less worried of playing them now, if I'm honest I do t think they will make the final

I agree....but the Ref was weak and allowed it.

It was clear to me ( 69% V 31%) We had "getting injured" on our minds......under normal circumstances this team of ours would not concede that much possession...I agree with you after Wigan and Brentford, their desperation was growing and gradually getting out of control.

I think SJM was sucked in to his yellow as he spent most of the game trying to avoid it, it wasn't his natural game.

I have no idea, what will happen at Wembley.....we may not even meet.

 

[Rossi]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree....but the Ref was weak and allowed it.

It was clear to me ( 69% V 31%) We had "getting injured" on our minds......under normal circumstances this team of ours would not concede that much possession...I agree with you after Wigan and Brentford, their desperation was growing and gradually getting out of control.

I think SJM was sucked in to his yellow as he spent most of the game trying to avoid it, it wasn't his natural game.

I have no idea, what will happen at Wembley.....we may not even meet.

 

To be fair you make a good point about the ref allowing it but that's the problem, Jack doesn't get the protection he needs in this league, I know it's been said he goes down to easy, but that's because he has to ride so many tackles. Anyway hopefully we go up in this next lottery of playoffs and he won't be kicked as much in the prem

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, Rossi said:

To be fair you make a good point about the ref allowing it but that's the problem, Jack doesn't get the protection he needs in this league, I know it's been said he goes down to easy, but that's because he has to ride so many tackles. Anyway hopefully we go up in this next lottery of playoffs and he won't be kicked as much in the prem

I am not going to disagree with that , unless you are on the receiving end of those tackles it's hard to make a judgement from where we sit.....most opposing fans who claim he is theatrical is to legitimise bad tackles and bullying....and when the decision goes against them they whinge in frustration......No one loves a hard man more than me, but tackles have to be legit.

However, I will point out Hazard-Sterling- Aguero all get this kind of treatment and Messi and Best were targeted in every game.

It's not right and you do need refs to stamp on it....but also you need players to be cute too...."Best" used to play it off their legs,but to be fair they were all better than Jack....My point is Jack needs to try and help himself a bit more , by parodoxically drifting in and out and losing his attention/markers....that way he might make more impact, sometimes less is more.

Not easy, I know.

Edited April 30, 2019 by TRO

[thunderball]

19 hours ago, TRO said:

some of the stuff from the media in the aftermath of our game is a joke.

• Murphy on Hourihane...."Is he the only aggressor he saw, there were many in the melee?.....such desperate comments....if anything Bamfords was the most discreditable action....perhaps he didn't see that.
• It was the second time that Leeds refused to kick the ball out during the game, (sure we should play to the whistle),but that was taking the ****
• The referee should discuss with the captains before the game the gentlemanly conduct stance.....and not leave it to chance, it should be agreed with the 2 captains in the ref's presence...Clattenburg talking Rubbish, he knows it's an unwritten rule of fair play....The FA quote "ungentlemanly conduct" as a sin in their rules ....and then some ref's get all high and mighty and quote the rule book.....double bloody standards....it is morally "ungentlemanly conduct"
• To suggest by some pundits that Conor was naive to have kicked the ball out first, is utter one eyed Balderdash.....HE ACTUALLY set the gentlemanly standard for the game....bit rich to then call him out, he was just reacting to injustice.
• Imo Leeds were commendable for their "Gift" but it was only after they realised they had crossed the line morally.....That was their get out of jail card.....and just about everyone's bought it.....In hindsight, I wish we had of refused it.
• It seems like Leeds have come out of this as the victims and us the villains( shabby)......a smart piece of manoeuvering of a bunch seemingly one eyed pundits....seems like Alan Brazil still hasn't got over 1980/81 season.

The context to this is the fact Villa only 10 minutes prior, in arguably a better attacking position, put the ball out for Leeds for a non-head injury at Leeds request. Most commentators and layperson opinions didn’t watch the game nor did the media flag this point in the subsequent re-runs and reporting. This point is the single most important aspect to this whole debate.

........And he was off side.

........And the ref ignored a clear cut foul/penalty on Kodjia just prior to this.

But I’m not bitter.

 

[srsmithusa]

Of course we should play to the whistle full stop. 

However, I honestly think Roberts Feigned the intent to play it out.   That’s my beef. It was gamesmanship and trickery designed to gain an unfair advantage.  

Stopping before a whistle is stupid 

gamesmanship is cheating.  

[flashingqwerty]

On 29/04/2019 at 18:18, Cjay said:

Certain players go down far more easily then most, it is a contact sport after all (just about) and just because a player gets touched it doesnt mean its a foul. 

Partly why i prefer Messi to Ronaldo, absolutely no doubt both of them have been on the receiving end of a lot of rough treatment, yet only one of them has a reputation for being a diver or for being soft or whatever you want to call it. 

On the most fouled bit, i dont see this as a defence, most fouled just means the ref has given the most fouls in Grealish's favour, it doesn't mean that they were all fouls or that he didnt go down easily and con the ref, there are examples from yesterdays game where even Villa fans agree he went down very easily, it wasnt a foul but the ref gave it.

I think it was Dean Ashton or someone like that talking about this sort of thing the other week (not regarding Grealish, think it was a Norwich player) but he pointed out the Norwich player was "clever" he initiated contact by pushing the ball away then when the defender went to put a tackle in the Norwich player basically made sure the defender had to make contact with him then went down, no intention of going for the ball the attacker had just pushed away, he was only interested in initiating or forcing contact in order to win a free kick.  He got the freekick, but as the pundit pointed out if you watch it its cheating, its conning the ref, its not clever its deception but there is contact so it looks like a foul. 

As an aside on the most fouled bit being justification, Messi is second for most dribbles in La Liga which shows he as we know carries the ball often, but he is 13th for Fouled, so does that mean teams in La Liga fear 12 players more then Messi hence why he is less fouled or is he less bothered about winning freekicks and more bothered about scoring goals and creating chances? 

It means he is better at avoiding being kicked - which he is.