Dean Smith

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

You can make 4-3-3 deeper or narrower or whatever you want, you can put more defensively minded players in the midfield, you can tell the full backs to stay home, you can play centre backs at full back. Jose Mourinho used to park the bus with 4-3-3. In reality, 4-3-3, 4-1-4-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 are all variants of the same thing, and Smith uses all of them.

We could try a back 3 (and that's easy to say in hindsight when you've seen Vardy and Iheanacho exploit the lack of a spare man at the back) but I can't think of loads of clubs who have turned around a season by switching to a back 3 (Conte's Chelsea is the obvious one, but that was a system he knew inside out, not a roll of the dice).

I really think the Leicester game was a classic case of superior player quality making their manager look like a tactical genius. Yes, Rodgers came up with a clever system that exploited Smith's attacking overlaps - Ndidi/Praet/Riccardo suffocated Grealish & Targett and then released their strikers down the exposed flank, but the success of the tactic was down to Riccardo and Ndidi being class in their individual battles all afternoon. Try the same tactic with inferior players, and Grealish dances through you, leaving you with an overload elsewhere on the pitch.

Let's see what happens over the next few games, and during the January transfer window. If we pick up points and add an attacking option in January, then this loss to Leicester will be forgotten, and we should easily be able to kick on over the second half of the season.

Good Post.....makes sense.

I agree about the formation, because during a game it changes with the dynamic anyway....but we cannot continue with the same, as you are likely to get the same results.

I accept Leicester are a better team, by definition, even though they are very young like many of ours.....but my concerns are with some of the same issues I see in other games of ours... so this game has just highlighted them more...for sure they did stuff with competency and aplomb, many of the things I am pointing out we don't do well.....that will take its toll on us and it did.

While it is accepted Leicester were better overall, ably assisted by one on the best strikers around....We still played with a worrying naivety, particularly in defending.....Their goals fitted the MOTD  love -in, but the more discerning neutral spectator, would see them as gifts. ....2 of the goals resulted from giving the ball away, something that has been spoken about all season and last and still not fixed or even better.   

Mings's Hamstring was, well a typical sign of a team where nothing goes right.....The header from Luiz to Jack,  intercepted by Praet was naive and  lacked caution.....too may decisions lack Nous.

I hope you are right and that we pick up the much needed points in the next batch of games.....but I stress, real progress on pitch craft needs to be addressed.

 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, hippo said:

Not sure - But I think the issue is DS doesn't have the players at his disposal - Wesley, Nkamba, Luiz , Trez , Jota  have only sparked infrequently, Guilbert and Targett  may scrape into the adequate  category - I think the recruitment is very suspect to be honest 

I totally agree.....and I am not about to enter a debate to bin Dean Smith.

I want it to work for him.

On the players :

I agree with you....so far and on the evidence of what I have seen.....Luiz and Nakamba do not fill me with the joy, that it does some.....

....I don't see any close resemblance to dominating qualities.....I accept it takes time, but I have grave doubts.

Wes seems to get worse and needs to come out of the firing line, but whether we can, is another thing......Trez, I see a flicker of light, has a go, which is something, but his positional sense is dim, doesn't seem to go enough, where he can hurt teams enough.....90 minutes, not so sure.

I too think the recruitment is iffy......I cringe every time a window comes around and I have done for years.

I think this policy of having only certain types like age or foreign, smacks of money ball and smacks of being able to cash in if it all goes wrong, its semi defeatest.....I want to see a more deliberate approach of being more sure of the recruit and being sure of where they fit......i.e Danny Ings would have been a good buy for us, when he was at Liverpool, in our circumstances, but I guess we wouldn't have looked at him for being too old......would Vardy be too old?.....is Giroud too old?

Its not how old they are or where they come from , its ,can they do the job.....age and destination ,has to be a mix.

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I totally agree.....and I am not about to enter a debate to bin Dean Smith.

I want it to work for him.

On the players :

I agree with you....so far and on the evidence of what I have seen.....Luiz and Nakamba do not fill me with the joy, that it does some.....

....I don't see any close resemblance to dominating qualities.....I accept it takes time, but I have grave doubts.

Wes seems to get worse and needs to come out of the firing line, but whether we can, is another thing......Trez, I see a flicker of light, has a go, which is something, but his positional sense is dim, doesn't seem to go enough, where he can hurt teams enough.....90 minutes, not so sure.

I too think the recruitment is iffy......I cringe every time a window comes around and I have done for years.

I think this policy of having only certain types like age or foreign, smacks of money ball and smacks of being able to cash in if it all goes wrong, its semi defeatest.....I want to see a more deliberate approach of being more sure of the recruit and being sure of where they fit......i.e Danny Ings would have been a good buy for us, when he was at Liverpool, in our circumstances, but I guess we wouldn't have looked at him for being too old......would Vardy be too old?.....is Giroud too old?

Its not how old they are or where they come from , its ,can they do the job.....age and destination ,has to be a mix.

Yes I agree - The way to get the biggest influx of cash into VP - is not be relegated this season. Whilst it may look good to buy a young hopeful for £9m then sell him for £40m a season later - that profit is wiped out 3 or 4 times over should we get relegated.

We should have brought some players that were nailed on to make an impact this season - The Wesley gamble looks to have failed - and now we have to go striker hunting in the Jan window.....

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Being compact off the ball is the Tactics 101 basics of football. I'd respectfully suggest that Smith and Terry already know this. The issue is more likely to be in the execution.

I would agree, with you ,alluding to the execution.

but when its not carried out....speculation between coaches and players is inevitable.......are they told correctly or do they just not carry it out.

being compact off the ball for me is a discipline and organisation and a belief in the instructions and an awareness of when to break to attack....its a combination of things like a rehearsal.

We we're like a gaggle of geese being scattered by a fox at times....especially when the goals rained in.

Edited December 9, 2019 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

We've beaten almost every team this season we've been favourite to beat before kick-off.

If that carries on we'll be fine.

[TRO]

Our standards need to be set against the top teams, not the bottom ones.

beating the bottom teams...doesn't in itself fix our issues.....it just papers over the cracks.

sure, it takes time, but certain improvements in aspects of our game should be able to be identified, in order for improvement to be expected.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

We've beaten almost every team this season we've been favourite to beat before kick-off.

If that carries on we'll be fine.

Was we favourites to beat Everton, Newcastle and Brighton or Norwich away?

I don't think we have been Favourites to beat anybody.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

That's interesting. I think the Brighton game epitomises this: time and time again they just played straight through us.

I don;t understand what creates the gaps, though, as we typically set up 4-1-3-1, with a player between our MF and Defence and also 3 players ahead of him. On paper, there shouldn't be any gaps. Perhaps it is that front 3 getting caught too far forward? 

That isn't working....it should, but it isn't......The discipline required, quite apart from the ability of first touch etc isn't there.....the physical presence, is not there its desperate lunges and an aerial balls are lost with a lack of height or positional play.

[Tomaszk]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Was we favourites to beat Everton, Newcastle and Brighton or Norwich away?

I don't think we have been Favourites to beat anybody.

Definitely bookies favourites for West Ham, Newcastle and Brighton. If we get thumped at Blades we'll still be favourites for Southampton as well.

It won't be comfortable by the way! Just something I've noticed. Wins v those around you are better than wins v top sides in relegation terms. You get 3 and make sure they get 0.

[foreveryoung]

We are all talking about the mistakes and organisation of the team. I myself think we have some good technical players so in reality surely the changes need to start from Smith and the coaching staff. Are we saying he dont want to change or simply technically limited? He seems to know the problems from his interviews, but cannot solve them. I myself think it has alot to do with lack of aggression and discipline. This has to start from Smith and his staff.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Definitely bookies favourites for West Ham, Newcastle and Brighton. If we get thumped at Blades we'll still be favourites for Southampton as well.

It won't be comfortable by the way! Just something I've noticed. Wins v those around you are better than wins v top sides in relegation terms. You get 3 and make sure they get 0.

Yeah I get that.....but i just see every game as an opportunity to get points, don't care who they are.

just an analogy.....If you build a bridge to take 40 tons and only 20 ton trucks use it, you will be fine......If you build a bridge to take a 20 ton truck and 20 tone trucks use it eventually you could be in trouble.

I get what you are saying but those bottom teams will eventually turn us over, if we don't improve elements of our game, that are screaming to be improved ......like giving the ball away too often and too easily.

[Tomaszk]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yeah I get that.....but i just see every game as an opportunity to get points, don't care who they are.

To his detriment, so does Dean Smith! 

We play the aggressive same shape v Liverpool and we do v Dog & Duck FC.

We know when it clicks, it's great. The hope I suppose, is that it starts to click v better sides as well.

If we stay up, I am confident of three or four starting players being signed next Summer. It'll be great. Whether we stay up or not feels 55/45 at the moment.

[New_Hope]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Our standards need to be set against the top teams, not the bottom ones.

beating the bottom teams...doesn't in itself fix our issues.....it just papers over the cracks.

sure, it takes time, but certain improvements in aspects of our game should be able to be identified, in order for improvement to be expected.

What cracks.....we are not a top 6 team under-achieving here....we are a newly promoted team vying for survival in a new league....beating the bottom clubs is exactly our standard at the minute

[Zatman]

Yep I think people need to sit back and forget the name of the club and realise we are one of the weakest teams in the league. We were not prepared for promotion as it wasnt expected when Smith took over
I would say on average the play off winners finish about 16th or 17th. Only Ipswich, West Ham and Swansea finished top half in 1st season after winning the play off

[KentVillan]

I think compactness comes from the way the players move within a system, rather than from the formation itself.

You can play a very compact 4-4-2 for example, even though it is known for being a shape which exposes the gaps between the defence and midfield.

So if we're looking stretched and easy to play through, it's probably not a 4-3-3 thing, but almost certainly because too many players are being dragged out of position in attack (and therefore exposed if we lose the ball), or they aren't moving properly as a unit off the ball, or we're just giving possession away too cheaply.

The obvious explanation in Smithball is that he loves to get both full backs overlapping and 2 of his midfield three involved in the attack, so we end up with something like looks like a 2-1-4-3. It looks great when we're the better team, but it's possibly a bit naive against a team who can hit you quickly on the break with quality. It also gives a bit too much responsibility to Nakamba, who is new to the league, and still a bit of an unknown quantity.

The problem is that what failed for Smith vs Leicester, worked pretty well for him vs Man Utd. Maybe this is just a price we have to accept of his style - we will occasionally get destroyed on the break by a team like Leicester (and remember, a lot of our recent problems have been on set pieces, where formation and open play tactics are largely irrelevant).

[villalad21]

They are spot on here.

It really was piss poor management. Smith needs to be more decisive here.

 

[AJ]

18 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

Flogging that dead Horse

He isn't dead. He is just...sleeping.

[striker]

5 hours ago, Lord Willard said:

Still think we play the best football for years. I'd rather watch us play football than defend for 90mins and hope for a goal. I still think we'll finish 17th or higher.

Maybe, including myself, wanting Villa to play like Smith's former club is a bit premature at the moment? Maybe he needs more time and more transfer windows to do that but in the interim he certainly needs to close down the spaces other teams are taking advantage of. Certainly whenever Villa play the top 6.

This isn't Brentford in the Championship it is Aston Villa in the Premiership coming up against better quality teams.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Maybe, including myself, wanting Villa to play like Smith's former club is a bit premature at the moment? Maybe he needs more time and more transfer windows to do that but in the interim he certainly needs to close down the spaces other teams are taking advantage of. Certainly whenever Villa play the top 6.

This isn't Brentford in the Championship it is Aston Villa in the Premiership coming up against better quality teams.

But we are playing like a proper Smith team.

He's teams has always leaked goals.

It's just something you need to accept, cause it won't change.

[foreveryoung]

9 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

But we are playing like a proper Smith team.

He's teams has always leaked goals.

It's just something you need to accept, cause it won't change.

If it don't change then unfortunately he cant be the man for us is the Premier League. You get punished playing wide open football in this league.