Dean Smith

[TRO]

8 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

We are all talking about the mistakes and organisation of the team. I myself think we have some good technical players so in reality surely the changes need to start from Smith and the coaching staff. Are we saying he dont want to change or simply technically limited? He seems to know the problems from his interviews, but cannot solve them. I myself think it has alot to do with lack of aggression and discipline. This has to start from Smith and his staff.

errrr.....sadly, so do I.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think compactness comes from the way the players move within a system, rather than from the formation itself.

You can play a very compact 4-4-2 for example, even though it is known for being a shape which exposes the gaps between the defence and midfield.

So if we're looking stretched and easy to play through, it's probably not a 4-3-3 thing, but almost certainly because too many players are being dragged out of position in attack (and therefore exposed if we lose the ball), or they aren't moving properly as a unit off the ball, or we're just giving possession away too cheaply.

The obvious explanation in Smithball is that he loves to get both full backs overlapping and 2 of his midfield three involved in the attack, so we end up with something like looks like a 2-1-4-3. It looks great when we're the better team, but it's possibly a bit naive against a team who can hit you quickly on the break with quality. It also gives a bit too much responsibility to Nakamba, who is new to the league, and still a bit of an unknown quantity.

The problem is that what failed for Smith vs Leicester, worked pretty well for him vs Man Utd. Maybe this is just a price we have to accept of his style - we will occasionally get destroyed on the break by a team like Leicester (and remember, a lot of our recent problems have been on set pieces, where formation and open play tactics are largely irrelevant).

That really doesn't explain why they give the ball away so easily and so often.....it doesn't explain why on so many occasions our first touch lets us down......it doesn't explain either why our ability to challenge for aerial balls is so puny.....or in fact why so many times the player on the ball fails to find a recipient to pass to.....and it doesn't explain why in so many games we have so many unforced errors.

You see, you can present all sorts of formations, but players have to do their jobs.......that's the tricky bit......formations just arrange work loads and they change as the opposition counter, what we do and vice versa.....it still comes back to winning the individual battle, against your opposite number.

Dean dismissed suggestions that we were far too open.....I think, he is wrong.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

Aggressive?.....there is no aggression in our play.....sorry.

passive you mean.

We play the aggressive same formation v Liverpool as we do v Dog & Duck FC.

We know when it clicks, it's great. The hope I suppose, is that it starts to click v better sides as well.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Tomaszk

[Johnnyp]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

That really doesn't explain why they give the ball away so easily and so often.....it doesn't explain why on so many occasions our first touch lets us down......it doesn't explain either why our ability to challenge for aerial balls is so puny.....or in fact why so many times the player on the ball fails to find a recipient to pass to.....and it doesn't explain why in so many games we have so many unforced errors.

You see, you can present all sorts of formations, but players have to do their jobs.......that's the tricky bit......formations just arrange work loads and they change as the opposition counter, what we do and vice versa.....it still comes back to winning the individual battle, against your opposite number.

Dean dismissed suggestions that we were far too open.....I think, he is wrong.

 

We were shocking just before they scored the first goal. Maddison should of scored. They'd of carved us open even had a fit Mings been on. Luiz is a talent but he looks bare minimum on work rate. Nakamba looked rattled by the pace and intensity of it all. And is it me or is he really small and child like looking. !

[striker]

Posters keep saying Luiz is a talent. I’ve yet to see that talent. Looks no better than Westwood who went to Burnley. Really don’t know what Smith sees in him. Hourihane is much more affective imo.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, striker said:

Posters keep saying Luiz is a talent. I’ve yet to see that talent. Looks no better than Westwood who went to Burnley. Really don’t know what Smith sees in him. Hourihane is much more affective imo.

Yeah, tickles me too.

[Kiwivillan]

36 minutes ago, striker said:

Posters keep saying Luiz is a talent. I’ve yet to see that talent. Looks no better than Westwood who went to Burnley. Really don’t know what Smith sees in him. Hourihane is much more affective imo.

Is that 2019 Burnley players and supporters player of the year Westwood?

Hourihane has habit of having 1-2 good games and being anonymous the next 2

Edited December 10, 2019 by Kiwivillan

[Laughable Chimp]

17 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Is that 2019 Burnley players and supporters player of the year Westwood?

Hourihane has habit of having 1-2 good games and being anonymous the next 2

I mean, so is Luiz tbf. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[ozvillafan]

2 hours ago, striker said:

Posters keep saying Luiz is a talent. I’ve yet to see that talent. Looks no better than Westwood who went to Burnley. Really don’t know what Smith sees in him. Hourihane is much more affective imo.

Indeed. I think this is based on Peps thoughts on him Rather than what we are seeing on the pitch. 

He hasn't been poor but has been no more effective than McGinn or Hourihane 

[New_Hope]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't look at the fixtures....I look at how we play......its about us, not everybody else.

But the nature of opposition defines how we play and perform surely....I can just imagine the Crewe fans having a right moan about how they played against us can't you?

Where we can judge ourselves is by playing the teams in our mini-league of 7....we get results against them (which we have done) and we are fine!

Edited December 10, 2019 by New_Hope

[MotoMkali]

12 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

What's worrying about us tactically is we can't play through the middle because wesley is dog shit. Currently 90% of our attacks involve either jack or McGinn picking up the ball on the corner of the box, waiting for targett/elmo/guilbert to over lap before they drill a cross in low and two of wesley/el ghazi/mcginn/Jack go for it. Its not exactly unpredictable 

I think you mean we don't attack through the middle because none of our central midfielders come short so it has to go out wide. 

[foreveryoung]

2 hours ago, New_Hope said:

But the nature of opposition defines how we play and perform surely....I can just imagine the Crewe fans having a right moan about how they played against us can't you?

Where we can judge ourselves is by playing the teams in our mini-league of 7....we get results against them (which we have done) and we are fine!

I certainly hope Smith dont go out thinking this way.  As hard as the job is, we need to go out thinking we can beat any team. There will be zero progress if we are happy just to beat the crap.

Edited December 10, 2019 by foreveryoung

[New_Hope]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I certainly hope Smith dont go out thinking this way.  As hard as the job is, we need to go out thinking we can beat any team. There will be zero progress if we are happy just to beat the crap.

I'm sure we do mate....but when playing the top teams belief isn't enough....yeah you might grab a plucky win....but when they are on top form and the difference in class is there to see, no point in bitchin because they have stopped us from performing due to their higher standard of play!!

[striker]

10 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Is that 2019 Burnley players and supporters player of the year Westwood?

Hourihane has habit of having 1-2 good games and being anonymous the next 2

I have yet to see Luiz having two good games but we'll agree to disagree.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, New_Hope said:

But the nature of opposition defines how we play and perform surely....I can just imagine the Crewe fans having a right moan about how they played against us can't you?

Where we can judge ourselves is by playing the teams in our mini-league of 7....we get results against them (which we have done) and we are fine!

Some things yes.... so how did we play so well against Liverpool and Man U......only errors at the end, undid us, against the scouse.

but are you telling me our first touch deserts us depending who we play.?....are you telling me we can challenge for aerial balls only against the lesser teams?

I am talking basics here.....Not sophisticated tactics against the top teams.

Edited December 10, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

Dean said he was brought up watching the Ron Saunders teams.....that's encouraging, He must have watched what we watched.....1-0 at home the game was all over, such was Ron's teachings of how to deny the opposition.

When he Bought a player, that player came in to a camp that had work rate in its DNA....everyone grafted and fought for the ball......no wonder they all improved at our place.....I honestly can't remember a player bought, when Ron was there that got worse as a result of coming to us....and we didn't even spend big money in relative terms.

I would say this to Dean " just try and emulate some of his teachings and we will be ok"

We all know football has changed, but some of Ron's philosophies are still alive and kicking today.

[mykeyb]

Dean doesnt change his formation or style no matter who we play and thats a problem because I would imagine that even Klopp will tweak some element for a game against the competition. Its completely naive.

We know how Leicester play but did nothing to make it more difficult for them, we know all about Vardy but did nothing to stop him.

If he continues in the same manner I think it will be difficult to stop up.

We need to win the games against those around us but also need to start grinding out results against the top 10 as well and if Dean isnt prepared to adjust then he isnt going to take us any further than he has at this moment.

[foreveryoung]

Even Nuno with Wolves needed to change the way he plays. He used to play a rigid system, since then they seem to have there mojo back, even though they do still struggle against the lesser teams, because of this system.

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Dean said he was brought up watching the Ron Saunders teams.....that's encouraging, He must have watched what we watched.....1-0 at home the game was all over, such was Ron's teachings of how to deny the opposition.

When he Bought a player, that player came in to a camp that had work rate in its DNA....everyone grafted and fought for the ball......no wonder they all improved at our place.....I honestly can't remember a player bought, when Ron was there that got worse as a result of coming to us....and we didn't even spend big money in relative terms.

I would say this to Dean " just try and emulate some of his teachings and we will be ok"

We all know football has changed, but some of Ron's philosophies are still alive and kicking today.

I always balk at posts like this, I reckon this group of players works as hard as any we've ever had.  They aren't playing football from 40 years ago.  

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I always balk at posts like this, I reckon this group of players works as hard as any we've ever had.  They aren't playing football from 40 years ago.  

you baulk....that's a bit rich.

some of the things haven't changed in football from 40 years ago.....I cringe when I read that.....even some of the so called formations were tried years ago, just regurgitated and modernised and some think its new.

First touch, keeping possession, not giving the ball away, winning your duels/battles.....being aware of who is around you, showing aggression.

Do you honestly think all these are all today's football......they've been around since the game began.....Graeme Souness talks about it all the time about Arsenal, too passive, don't work hard enough or tough enough......Leicester, is hard work, they work hard as well as their talent.

working hard is not just running around and chasing shadows.....its getting tight and contesting every ball and working smart.....running OFF the ball and looking for passes....our lot are static at times and wonder why they get closed down.

Chelsea also out worked us, not just Leicester.

I think your view on working hard is suspect.....Jack works hard granted...look long and hard again at the rest.

Edited December 10, 2019 by TRO