AvfcRigo82 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, useless said: Pretty sure that most of our older players that we let go have retired because they couldn't find new clubs. Could be wrong but I think Adomah and Whelan are the only ones still playing, and Whelan's playing for Fleetwood. So that wouldn't have worked. I agree and think it was a big mistake to let so many of the older heads leave. I think we should have kept Hutton and Jedinak. Okay neither would have seen alot if game time this season (although I think Hutton would have been a better backuo option than Taylor) but both would have rallied the dressing room and both would have gave us that bit more experience that we have lacked this season. It wasn't a good move on the part of Dean Smith Edited July 8, 2020 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 If we had Jedinak, Hutton, Adomah, Elphick and Whelan then the relegation thread would have been closed before lockdown Whelan got released halfway through the season by a team relegated in Scotland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Zatman said: If we had Jedinak, Hutton, Adomah, Elphick and Whelan then the relegation thread would have been closed before lockdown Whelan got released halfway through the season by a team relegated in Scotland Depends, I think they would have flourished in a Tim Sherwood high defensive line tactic team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I agree and think it was a big mistake to let so many of the older heads leave. I think we should have kept Hutton and Jedinak. Okay neither would have seen alot if game time this season (although I think Hutton would have been a better backuo option than Taylor) but both would have rallied the dressing room and both would have gave us that bit more experience that we have lacked this season. It wasn't a good move on the part of Dean Smith Both Hutton and Jedinak retired, what does that tell you? If both had played really well last season and were now playing well in a top end championship team or relegation rival there would be a point But as it is jedinak wasn't a regular for us last season and despite how popular hutton was hes been average for years in the championship, neither are anywhere near good enough, not even close We should have replaced their experience and leadership but keeping them was pointless, we shouldn't have kept them even if we weren't promoted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) You are missing the point. By keeping the squad together we could have focused on our main transfer targets like Benrahma and Maupay who would directly improve our first eleven instead of signing 12 mostly average players in the name of quantity. Keeping the dressing room together is vitally important. I agree Whelan, Jedinak and Adomah needed to be replaced eventually but we did too many changes in a too short space of time. Should have been done more gradually. Allardyce actually discussed this in the summer on TalkSport when they talked about our transfer strategy. He highly disagreed with it and said he would gone about it a completely different way. Edited July 8, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Allardyce actually discussed this in the summer on TalkSport when they talked about our transfer strategy. He highly disagreed with it and said he would gone about it a completely different way. He probably have kept us up as well people would moan and say the football would be shit ..but then having seen us play all season it has been shit anyway for most of it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I'm not missing the point We give new contracts to players who were not very good last year in the championship because you think that would enable us to buy better players for this season, we keep Whelan so we don't have to buy Nakamba So we do that, great we have maupay up front, we also have Whelan vs de Bruyne in the middle... How are we better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Both Hutton and Jedinak retired, what does that tell you? If both had played really well last season and were now playing well in a top end championship team or relegation rival there would be a point But as it is jedinak wasn't a regular for us last season and despite how popular hutton was hes been average for years in the championship, neither are anywhere near good enough, not even close We should have replaced their experience and leadership but keeping them was pointless, we shouldn't have kept them even if we weren't promoted They both retired because they never we're given 1 year extensions, for the above discussions, and they never found new clubs for various reasons. They only retired into this season but I feel both should have been retained - they may not be able to hack this level or get many games.. But they have experience at this level which was the most important thing. I believe Jedinak is still with the club in some capacity. We should have kept them if we weren't going to replace them with someone of the same experience who can still hack it at this level, I agree with you on that front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: He probably have kept us up as well people would moan and say the football would be shit ..but then having seen us play all season it has been shit anyway for most of it Zackly. Play unattractive football, score a few, win a few, stay up, build 1 step at a time. or Play awful football, can’t score, can’t win, go down with a squad full of expensive flops. and people still say they don’t want anyone like Sam at the club. I dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I'm not missing the point We give new contracts to players who were not very good last year in the championship because you think that would enable us to buy better players for this season, we keep Whelan so we don't have to buy Nakamba So we do that, great we have maupay up front, we also have Whelan vs de Bruyne in the middle... How are we better? We should have shipped out players like Lansbury and Taylor instead of Jedinak and Hutton. Still leaves room for all the arrivals to arrive that have. Equally, signing shite like Drinkwater doesn't help either. I would rather play Jedinak than that useless little clown. Edited July 8, 2020 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I think Whelan and Jedi would have been at least as good as what we wasted money on and had the benefit of not having to settle into the club/league/country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, avfc1982am said: Managers and clubs have list of potential transfers, Targets, etc. ..................... No one said he'd been to watch them extensively but guaranteed he'd been to see them ....................... the players we're already known? Therefore he wouldn't have needed to go watch 13 players at the back end of last season?! Maybe 3-4 seen as he was aware of most the incoming players anyway - Scouts keep tabs on 100s of players in numerous leagues worldwide - Clubs normally have 4 or 5 names for each target position, as very often they are not able to their first (or second, or third) choices - Villa will probably have had a different list of targets for the Championship than for the Premiership - Promotion was won very late on and so the recruitment process was time-constrained - Villa signing 15 players Clearly, the manager is going to have Very limited Knowledge of many of the signings and relies on the DofF to the greatest extent Moan all you like about selection, man management, tactics etc but at least have the sense to realise that the managers responsibility for recruitment is limited at best 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: We should have shipped out players like Lansbury and Taylor instead of Jedinak and Hutton. Still leaves room for all the arrivals to arrive that have. I think we should have shipped them all out which shows you where we were last summer... Even after we let the load go and the loan players returned Taylor, Nyland, kalinic, lansbury, hause, hogan, kodjia, bree, elmo all not good enough, Hourihane and EL Ghazi were questionable to to whether they were good enough and now we know the answer is no, steer is still only a maybe We got promoted with 3 players that were good enough James Chester is the only player who maybe we should have kept and I'd base our decision on his fitness 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I think we should have shipped them all out which shows you where we were last summer... Even after we let the load go and the loan players returned Taylor, Nyland, kalinic, lansbury, hause, hogan, kodjia, bree, elmo all not good enough, Hourihane and EL Ghazi were questionable to to whether they were good enough and now we know the answer is no, steer is still only a maybe We got promoted with 3 players that were good enough James Chester is the only player who maybe we should have kept and I'd base our decision on his fitness I kind of agree but we couldn't afford to replace the whole squad with £130m... However, I believe we could have done alot better in our transfer dealings than what we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Clearly, the manager is going to have Very limited Knowledge ofmany of the signings and relies on the DofF to the greatest extent Moan all you like about selection, man management, tactics etc but at least have the sense to realise that the managers responsibility for recruitment is limited at best All the more reason not to gamble on players that nobody has heard of or seen play then ”I needed a car quickly and didn’t have time to do much research so bought a second hand Ssangyong Musso“ Edited July 8, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) We have a squad badly lacking pace as it is and people want us to have kept Jedi, Whelan, Adomah and a broken Chester. They were painfully slow and exposed in the Championship against mostly limited and weaker players. It would have been cruel to have them in the PL. Same with Hutton who was pulled out of position chasing butterflies or buying hot dogs on a weekly basis. He had bravado but he also had the positional awareness of someone with a severe concussion. Edited July 8, 2020 by sne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 hours ago, DCJonah said: Is this the point we are at now with some. So desperate to criticise the current manager, that we now make up nonsense like this, which has no relevance, just to get an extra dig in. It's not a dig at Smith. Sherwood's achievement is equally as good as Smith getting us up after taking over 4 points off the play offs. I think Sherwood gets unfair criticism on here after achieving what he did then got the spine ripped out of his team and had to re-build with a squad full of players new to the league. During that poor run off games he only lost by one goad apart from the 2-0 Spurs result. There are a lot of similarities to this season yet Sherwood was a fraud and it's not Smith's fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. The reason Sherwood hasn't managed since is his choice, a couple of week's after he left us he did an interview and said his wife doesn't want him to manage a club again due to the stress and they didn't need the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, sne said: We have a squad badly lacking pace as it is and people want us to have kept Jedi, Whelan and a broken Chester. They were painfully slow and exposed in the Championship against mostly limited and weaker players. It would have been cruel to have them in the PL. Same with Hutton who was pulled out of position chasing butterflies or buying hot dogs on a weekly basis. He had bravado but he also had the positional awareness of someone with a severe concussion. The problem is we didn't replace with any physical attributes to help at this level. Engels is just as slow as Chester IMO. Nakamba may be more athletic than Jedinak and Whelan but I think both of those are stronger and more physical than him. I genuinely think another year of jedinak would have been better than nakamba. Don't sign engels and nakamba and there's 20+ million for a Benrahma. Its all with hindsight but on reflection I think we made every bad decision we possibly could. We signed no experience in defence. No physicality in midfield and put together possibly one of the worst groups of strikers the prem has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, jim said: It's not a dig at Smith. Sherwood's achievement is equally as good as Smith getting us up after taking over 4 points off the play offs. I think Sherwood gets unfair criticism on here after achieving what he did then got the spine ripped out of his team and had to re-build with a squad full of players new to the league. During that poor run off games he only lost by one goad apart from the 2-0 Spurs result. There are a lot of similarities to this season yet Sherwood was a fraud and it's not Smith's fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. The reason Sherwood hasn't managed since is his choice, a couple of week's after he left us he did an interview and said his wife doesn't want him to manage a club again due to the stress and they didn't need the money. Sherwood keeping us up is nowhere near the achievement of getting promoted last season. Thats ridiculous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Jedinak played 17 games in the championship last season and was just ok He was not the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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