nick76 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I guess in that analogy. You buy 3 expensive wheels and keep one of the shit ones that might last just a little longer. Yeah I know, I read you prior post after writing mine and it made sense. Everything looks different in hindsight, I'm still surprised after looking at his squad at the start of the season how we have struggled so much. I knew it would be a battle and my aim was always 40 points to just survive relegation and thought we had a team to do that. Some players just havent stepped up from the projects players, we've had some bad luck, we have had key injuries with Heaton, McGinn and Wes at the wrong time....but so has many other teams. A few changes in personal brought may have been the difference, I just dont know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: No. Jack, McGinn and Luiz could have been our midfield. Benrahma, Adomah and Maupay as our front three would be so much better than our current front three. So much better. So we pay jedinak £40k+ a week to be a cheerleader? We have John Terry for that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, VillaCas said: Here you go TRO! Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I guess in that analogy. You buy 3 expensive wheels and keep one of the shit ones that might last just a little longer. They weren't lasting longer, hence the retirements 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: I'm still surprised after looking at his squad at the start of the season how we have struggled so much. Too much emphasis was put on the transfer fees and thought there was a direct correlation to ability. People formed the opinion Villa would be ok because they spent lots of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: I don't see the leadership qualities to turn things around.....i just see much of the same moving forward. We are bringing new players in to a camp with no leadership anywhere, we will just end up getting the same results.....the underlying mood of this group is passive and second rate, mediocrity thrives and multiplies, failure is a bed partner to all this and a breeding ground for more of the same. I just do not see a way out other than radical change of heart and vision. I really don't think they can see the woods for the trees. If we keep Smith on it will be a real struggle in the Championship. Depending on the recruitment we may go up through the play offs again. But there is no chance in automatic promotion in my eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, villa4europe said: So we pay jedinak £40k+ a week to be a cheerleader? We have John Terry for that Yeah, that's why Terry is here isn't it. If anything we really could have used a more experienced assistant and backroom team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: So we pay jedinak £40k+ a week to be a cheerleader? We have John Terry for that It's squad game. Even beside that experience heads is just great to have around. We obviously don't see eye to eye on this so i don't see the point in dragging this discussion farther than it need to be. Let's just agree to disagree. Edited July 8, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yeah I know, I read you prior post after writing mine and it made sense. Everything looks different in hindsight, I'm still surprised after looking at his squad at the start of the season how we have struggled so much. I knew it would be a battle and my aim was always 40 points to just survive relegation and thought we had a team to do that. Some players just havent stepped up from the projects players, we've had some bad luck, we have had key injuries with Heaton, McGinn and Wes at the wrong time....but so has many other teams. A few changes in personal brought may have been the difference, I just dont know. I think a few different players like steven Nzozi or younger, would have made the difference.....too many the same....and too many showing little or no effect in team performances. The players we bought, most of them was expected to get better with games, that didn't happen, they got arguably, worse.....that is the essence of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) Jedinak was well and truly finished 12 months prior to leaving. So was Albert. Nakamba looked decent in his first few appearances. He had bite, moved the ball well, and had good movement himself. There was a game at home where he was incredible. I think it was Burnley. He was dictating the entire game, winning the ball, playing great passes, always on the move.Then he followed it up against Norwich. He has over the course of the season got more sluggish, less mobile, a poorer footballer. Why is that? Look at the coaching. It has to be. Trezegeut , he's garbage, but he has been here a year and I think he was fitter when he arrived with a double chin and man tits. edit : same with Guilbert. I think it was Everton at home. 92nd minute he was sprinting 120 yards to get on an overlap at 2-0 up. Incredible.What a find. What an athlete. Fast forward a year and the bloke is getting rinsed by every winger in the league and hasn't been an outlet since Christmas. What is that about? Edited July 8, 2020 by rodders0223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Too much emphasis was put on the transfer fees and thought there was a direct correlation to ability. People formed the opinion Villa would be ok because they spent lots of money. I was coming from we brought options, that could change up. Brought young players that would have energy and fresh desire. We knew not all would succeed straight away but many havent all season. To play alongside Mings we had big bustling Hause who was awkward but could play against bigger, slower strikers or Konsa who could play with it more on the ground...hmmm that didnt work out. Or to compliment Jack and McGinn in midfield, we had the elegance of Luiz or the hard tackling of Nakamba depending on the game....hmmm both were poor before lockdown but Luiz has been good since restart but too little, too late. We had the experience and quality of Heaton but we lost him and have struggled with a keeper since. You just go on and on. None of our projects worked out straight away and now we are only starting to see glimpses of Luiz....maybe others with more time will be the same, just unfortunately we dont have anymore time. So my opinion wasnt based on fees or the amount we spent but the options in most positions that we had brought, on the understanding most of these players were young and were projects. Shame none of the projects came to form much much earlier to help us. I agree with what I think DCJonah said in a round about way, we missed the core of the team, that experienced defender with Minds, and that strong battling midfielder that would've made a world of difference. I really believe that we were short of another striker and only having Kodjia, Wes and Davis was too much pressure on Wes' shoulders as Kodjia was on the out and Davis, I dont think is good enough but at best is very young and prone to injuries. Not having another striker for me was criminal because we needed that and also to take pressure off Wes a bit. That's why I am more protective of Wes. yes a big fee but a guy from a foreign country, with a big price tag, couldnt speak the language, was a big step up in quality in a team that had no experience at this league and wasnt providing him with many opportunities and he was getting blame and blame when most of our problems was conceding so many shots and conceding goals, not actually scoring goals which we werent too bad at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Jedinak was well and truly finished 12 months prior to leaving. So was Albert. Nakamba looked decent in his first few appearances. He had bite, moved the ball well, and had good movement himself. There was a game at home where he was incredible. I think it was Burnley. He was dictating the entire game, winning the ball, playing great passes, always on the move.Then he followed it up against Norwich. He has over the course of the season got more sluggish, less mobile, a poorer footballer. Why is that? Look at the coaching. It has to be. Trezegeut , he's garbage, but he has been here a year and I think he was fitter when he arrived with a double chin and man tits. edit : same with Guilbert. I think it was Everton at home. 92nd minute he was sprinting 120 yards to get on an overlap at 2-0 up. Incredible.What a find. What an athlete. Fast forward a year and the bloke is getting rinsed by every winger in the league and hasn't been an outlet since Christmas. What is that about? You can look at similar clubs who have done the same... It's too many players. Too many to deal with. Everton when they sold Lukaku and brought in 8-9 players and it became a real struggle for them. Fulham brought in 11 for 100 m. For me, for 100 m i'd like to see 2 or 3 players. Not 9-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, TRO said: I think a few different players like steven Nzozi or younger, would have made the difference.....too many the same....and too many showing little or no effect in team performances. The players we bought, most of them was expected to get better with games, that didn't happen, they got arguably, worse.....that is the essence of the problem. Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: You can look at similar clubs who have done the same... It's too many players. Too many to deal with. Everton when they sold Lukaku and brought in 8-9 players and it became a real struggle for them. Fulham brought in 11 for 100 m. For me, for 100 m i'd like to see 2 or 3 players. Not 9-10 We didnt have the ability to do that though to only bring in 2 or 3 players, we needed so much more and one of our main problems. You can argue a lot of things but if we had only brought in 2 or 3 players we would be in more trouble now because how thin our squad was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: We didnt have the ability to do that though to only bring in 2 or 3 players, we needed so much more and one of our main problems. You can argue a lot of things but if we had only brought in 2 or 3 players we would be in more trouble now because how thin our squad was. Not if we had kept our squad. Just look at all the players who left that we were forced to replace: Elphick, Hutton, Chester (Left in January), Bree, Bjarnason, Jedinak, Whelan, Adomah, Hogan. Probably someone i missed. This is a ridiculous amount of players. Don't try to replace everyone at once. Do it gradually. Replace 3 of them with better players in one window. Then another 3 in the next window. And so fourth. As i've said. Get rid of 5 players and then sign Heaton, Targett, Luiz, Benrahma and Maupay. Not any more. All these players would directly massively improve our starting eleven. We have to learn from this. Edited July 8, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Again, the problem was/is the way the squad was build over 3 seasons in the Championship. Elderly players on a steep decline, expensive flops on massive contracts we couldn't even give away and key players who were on loan from other clubs. We won promotion but had nothing to build from. We've made countless mistakes during this season and in building this squad. But they all pretty much stem from the short sighted way the team was assembled in the Championship and the mess our previous owners and "football people" left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 32 minutes ago, villalad21 said: If we keep Smith on it will be a real struggle in the Championship. Depending on the recruitment we may go up through the play offs again. But there is no chance in automatic promotion in my eyes. His teams are not rounded enough for automatic places.....all kippers & curtains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, TRO said: His teams are not rounded enough for automatic places.....all kippers & curtains. How do we know that? he hasnt had a full season in the Championship with the Villa and the ability to buy players....I guess you are basing it on Brentford, which is a different kettle of fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, sne said: Again, the problem was/is the way the squad was build over 3 seasons in the Championship. Elderly players on a steep decline, expensive flops on massive contracts we couldn't even give away and key players who were on loan from other clubs. We won promotion but had nothing to build from. We've made countless mistakes during this season and in building this squad. But they all pretty much stem from the short sighted way the team was assembled in the Championship and the mess our previous owners and "football people" left. Its been a shambles for some time.....and we keep clamouring to foreign markets to seek solace, paying through the nose, for players not resolute for this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Its been a shambles for some time.....and we keep clamouring to foreign markets to seek solace, paying through the nose, for players not resolute for this league. Like the relegation season that all these fancy foreigners went on to better things while our resolute British players **** us over 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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