Dean Smith

[AvfcRigo82]

The team needs re-built as 3/4 of the players we have are off through out of contracts or loans expiring.

The rest who have a year or 2 to run are shite which leaves us with 2/3 players.

Jack Grealish (Who I think will be sold and I cannot blame him now) leaving us with McGinn and Kalinic.

I don't trust Smith to carry out the rebuild nor do I want him to now either. He is an average midtable manager imo.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

 

I don't trust Smith to carry out the rebuild nor do I want him to now either. He is an average midtable manager imo.

Isnt it Suso job to arrange the rebuild

[AvfcRigo82]

Just now, Zatman said:

Isnt it Suso job to arrange the rebuild

Possibly but any manager would also require a say wouldn't they?

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Possibly but any manager would also require a say wouldn't they?

He is just a Head Coach so on continent the Director of Football or Sporting Director arranges all transfers but he just takes suggestions from manager

[villabromsgrove]

The commentator pointed out that ten of Brentford's starting eleven were signed by Dean Smith. The eleventh was already at the club.

Contrast their energy, willingness to run for each other and the overall desire and commitment, to the tired 'end of career' type performances that we're getting from a number of our players.

We can't play as a cohesive unit when just a couple of our players are busting a gut, and the rest are going through the 'same old, same old' motions.

At least were reminded last night how a full DS first eleven plays.

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

The commentator pointed out that ten of Brentford's starting eleven were signed by Dean Smith. The eleventh was already at the club.

Contrast their energy, willingness to run for each other and the overall desire and commitment, to the tired 'end of career' type performances that we're getting from a number of our players.

We can't play as a cohesive unit when just a couple of our players are busting a gut, and the rest are going through the 'same old, same old' motions.

At least were reminded last night how a full DS first eleven plays.

I would also guess the average age of the Brentford team is about 5 years younger than our team. younger and hungrier

[villabromsgrove]

24 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I would also guess the average age of the Brentford team is about 5 years younger than our team. younger and hungrier

Younger and hungrier .... with a future to look forward to rather than a past to look back on!

[Jay.P.A]

36 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The team needs re-built as 3/4 of the players we have are off through out of contracts or loans expiring.

The rest who have a year or 2 to run are shite which leaves us with 2/3 players.

Jack Grealish (Who I think will be sold and I cannot blame him now) leaving us with McGinn and Kalinic.

I don't trust Smith to carry out the rebuild nor do I want him to now either. He is an average midtable manager imo.

Like it or not - Smith is/was responsible for building that Brentford team that virtually showed our team how to play football, with a tiny budget compared to everyone. 

I believe in Smith until/if he fails with his 'own' team. 

It's like this; 

You hired a builder to sort your big house out. This builder has a reputation of doing a 'decent' job. You have some tools but the builder tells you he needs to buy his own tools to do that job. 

So off you go, and you buy EVERYTHING the builder wanted to do the job. He goes on to buy older brands which were tried and tested and paid a lot of money for them. He also borrowed a few tools from his mates.

Anyway, the builder starts his work, and your house starts to look good/decent. His methods probably aren't the best - he uses a lot of quick fixes, and uses the wrong tools for certain jobs - but the results seem to be working. 

Then you start realising although the house looks OK, the builder seems to be falling short.  Some of things he promised, it looks like he won't deliver. It looks OK, its just not what you paid. For the money you paid the builder (top dollar) and paid for his tools, it's not going to finish as you wanted. The builder becomes unreliable and you decide to tell the builder that you're going to not going to use him anymore. 

You then look for another builder - a younger builder who comes recommended from various people. He has taken jobs before and has produced great results from his limited resources. 

You bring him in, and he tells you straight away that the work the old builder did was unfortunately not very good for the long term, and if you want it to be done you need to start the work again. 

You tell him that the tools you've already bought need to be used, even though the tools are absolutely shit now and don't work properly. The builder agrees to work with old shit tools but says the results might not be great. He'll try his damn best but the methods he uses, these tools won't be suitable. You ask him to try and after a few months, you'll buy him the tools he needs to do his job correctly. 

Long story short, Dean Smith has to use Steve Bruce's old, shit tools. Until Smith buys his own players and can put his coaching into place, I'm going to back him. 

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Complete and utter shit. 

Absolutely nothing innovative in our team selection or formation, even less so during the games itself in terms of reacting to a pattern of play or what the opposition is doing. 

I'm just so glad we got rid of a 'dinosaur' and brought this tactical genius in, it's worked wonders hasn't it. 

 

And yes, I too got totally carried away after the middlesboro game but I think we can all safely agree that was 'new manager bounce' and nothing further. 

 

Sadly, all my pre-appointment fears are coming true, Smith looks out of his depth and clueless. 

agree with the frustration.  I am glad we got rid of a "dinosaur" and was neutral on whether Smith was the "right" replacement.  But what baffles me is what has happened under Smith.  I got a team going nowhere performing as complete giant killers for several matches (as you rightly note)  but then the wheels came off.  What happened?  What went wrong.  If Smith was good enough to get a terrible squad playing brilliantly  (as it appears he did) why is he getting so little of the current squad?  It seems like it must be more than 2 key injuries.  But I can't for the life of me pinpoint what it is?

Who is the key man in the locker room?   Did Smith piss him off?

[GENTLEMAN]

I have found it frustrating that Smith has kept faith with the current crop of players, even praising the professional old heads in the squad. Despite this, I think he’s being pragmatic, and will act to dismantle and rebuild, with Suso, the squad into one that can play with the purpose and energy that is required. Indeed, yesterday evening the mask slipped when he simply mentioned that Brentford  have players that can pass and move, the implication being that we don’t. 

[Raver50032]

42 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The team needs re-built as 3/4 of the players we have are off through out of contracts or loans expiring.

The rest who have a year or 2 to run are shite which leaves us with 2/3 players.

Jack Grealish (Who I think will be sold and I cannot blame him now) leaving us with McGinn and Kalinic.

I don't trust Smith to carry out the rebuild nor do I want him to now either. He is an average midtable manager imo.

Me again, sorry...

You state that 3/4 of our players are off in the summer for various reasons (debatable as to which ones are trying, and which aren't).

The 'rest' are 'shite.'

You don't trust Smith with a rebuild. Just out of interest, why is that? If 3/4 of the players are off (some out of contract, some not trying because they're off and don't care?) and the others are 'shite,' what exactly were you expecting Smith to do? Just asking as you've nailed your colours to the mast and seem to have lost all faith in Smith very quickly indeed. There was never a magic wand to wave given the summer turmoil and state that the previous incumbent left the team and the squad.

I'll admit that there is precious little about the last couple of months to be really excited about and results haven't been what I was hoping for considering how well we dealt with the 'difficult' run of fixtures before Christmas. But I can't get my head round why there are people who can be 'Smith out' so quickly when the journey has barely even begun. For people criticising him for never having won anything, Bruce (FOUR - 4 promotions)... Warnock... Allardyce and Pardew all had won nothing as managers before winning their first managerial honour. Chicken and egg again. As Director Orson Krennic once said... 'you have to start somewhere...'

Given how this thread is degenerating, it won't be long before the personal insults start on Smith. That itself will be shameful given that in actuality, he is one of us. It doesn't make him a charity case, or beyond criticism... But you might just as well shit on the Holte End steps.

 

[MaVilla]

7 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

I have found it frustrating that Smith has kept faith with the current crop of players, even praising the professional old heads in the squad. Despite this, I think he’s being pragmatic, and will act to dismantle and rebuild, with Suso, the squad into one that can play with the purpose and energy that is required. Indeed, yesterday evening the mask slipped when he simply mentioned that Brentford  have players that can pass and move, the implication being that we don’t. 

Completely wrong.

We have players that can move....towards the referee with their hands up moaning at the ref that they got tickled off the ball, as the opposition goes up the other end and creates a chance

tell you what tho, if the ball was responsibility you would see those players pass and move it like it was a hot potato.

Edited February 14, 2019 by MaVilla

[eholm]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

It’s pretty horrible isn’t it ?

Ive seen all but one game under Smith. I’ve seen us play better football under him than for many years. So I have some ( diminishing) confidence that what we are seeing is temporary. However, I’ve seen football as poor as anything as well.

Im as mortified as any as to why the approach has changed but ultimately it can only be one of two things.

EITHER

A

the players can’t play how he wants, as consistently as would be needed (over 90 minutes or over multiple games ) - particularly without Jack and Axle - So he’s playing what he thinks suits them best ( which, given they were assembled by Bruce, resembles Bruce’s teams) and they are doing it to about the same standard as they always have.

If this is so, I think complaints are futile. Cries of “ put the kids in” are based on very little player assessment, and, putting them into the team at the wrong time would be counter productive. Arguments about which Left Back, or which DM etc, are really the “ two bald men arguing over a comb” type. Hopefully he knows who he wants to work with come the summer.

In this scenario, the only thing that will affect performances in the short term is the return of Jack. For those that argue one player shouldn’t make such a difference I’d say ( a) it is self evident, under two Managers, that he does and (b) it depends on the player and the type of team he influences.

Only a summer clear out and all it entails will change things.

OR

B

the players CAN play how he wants, consistently,  but either.....

 -he's decided to play like this on purpose, so this IS how he wants,  - unrealistic in my view, only really supportable if you rationalise it by the “ can’t handle a big club” nonsense,

 - or he can’t get them to do so. In which case we are back to waiting for the clear out.

Having seen the good and bad, I’m going to go with ‘A’. Particularly as I recall Bruce saying at the start of the season how it was HIS intention to have playing a more front foot style, only for him to also quickly abandon it.

Im afraid we have players who were bought to play a particular way, and have shown for many months that without that bit extra ( Jack, Snodgrass, Kodja Of old) neither that way, nor the players that play it, can compete in modern football.

 

 

 

 

Excellent analysis of the current issues with the performances.

[AvfcRigo82]

10 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

Like it or not - Smith is/was responsible for building that Brentford team that virtually showed our team how to play football, with a tiny budget compared to everyone. 

I believe in Smith until/if he fails with his 'own' team. 

It's like this; 

You hired a builder to sort your big house out. This builder has a reputation of doing a 'decent' job. You have some tools but the builder tells you he needs to buy his own tools to do that job. 

So off you go, and you buy EVERYTHING the builder wanted to do the job. He goes on to buy older brands which were tried and tested and paid a lot of money for them. He also borrowed a few tools from his mates.

Anyway, the builder starts his work, and your house starts to look good/decent. His methods probably aren't the best - he uses a lot of quick fixes, and uses the wrong tools for certain jobs - but the results seem to be working. 

Then you start realising although the house looks OK, the builder seems to be falling short.  Some of things he promised, it looks like he won't deliver. It looks OK, its just not what you paid. For the money you paid the builder (top dollar) and paid for his tools, it's not going to finish as you wanted. The builder becomes unreliable and you decide to tell the builder that you're going to not going to use him anymore. 

You then look for another builder - a younger builder who comes recommended from various people. He has taken jobs before and has produced great results from his limited resources. 

You bring him in, and he tells you straight away that the work the old builder did was unfortunately not very good for the long term, and if you want it to be done you need to start the work again. 

You tell him that the tools you've already bought need to be used, even though the tools are absolutely shit now and don't work properly. The builder agrees to work with old shit tools but says the results might not be great. He'll try his damn best but the methods he uses, these tools won't be suitable. You ask him to try and after a few months, you'll buy him the tools he needs to do his job correctly. 

Long story short, Dean Smith has to use Steve Bruce's old, shit tools. Until Smith buys his own players and can put his coaching into place, I'm going to back him. 

I admire the long post and get it's a long term build but Jeso' I expected the quality of the said builder to do better than he is given all his experience.

I wouldn't have hired him in the first place.

That's not to say I have not backed him which I have, I just expected better than what we are being shown and witnessing.

 

[Tomaszk]

4 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Smith may be the wrong choice, may end up failing but if we don't commit to a more long term approach we will continue generating mess after mess as we have done for far too long now.

Agreed.

However, if there's an outstanding candidate in the Summer, I wouldn't cry to see Smith replaced if things continue this way. The Summer is a clean slate whether Smith stays or not, we are going to have so many ins and outs. I'd except we'll sign at least 6 permanent players and 4 or 5 loans.

He shouldn't get the job of the rebuild just because he's the man in the chair at the moment, he has to show that form of Nov/Dec wasn't the anomaly. The persistence of a predictable formation that is not working game after game is tiresome. I would like to see try something to stop this. A 343/3421 seems obvious as our full backs are shite, yet it's 433 every game.

I hope he turns it round and presides over a successful time next season.

[AvfcRigo82]

6 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

Me again, sorry...

You state that 3/4 of our players are off in the summer for various reasons (debatable as to which ones are trying, and which aren't).

The 'rest' are 'shite.'

You don't trust Smith with a rebuild. Just out of interest, why is that? If 3/4 of the players are off (some out of contract, some not trying because they're off and don't care?) and the others are 'shite,' what exactly were you expecting Smith to do? Just asking as you've nailed your colours to the mast and seem to have lost all faith in Smith very quickly indeed. There was never a magic wand to wave given the summer turmoil and state that the previous incumbent left the team and the squad.

I'll admit that there is precious little about the last couple of months to be really excited about and results haven't been what I was hoping for considering how well we dealt with the 'difficult' run of fixtures before Christmas. But I can't get my head round why there are people who can be 'Smith out' so quickly when the journey has barely even begun. For people criticising him for never having won anything, Bruce (FOUR - 4 promotions)... Warnock... Allardyce and Pardew all had won nothing as managers before winning their first managerial honour. Chicken and egg again. As Director Orson Krennic once said... 'you have to start somewhere...'

Given how this thread is degenerating, it won't be long before the personal insults start on Smith. That itself will be shameful given that in actuality, he is one of us. It doesn't make him a charity case, or beyond criticism... But you might just as well shit on the Holte End steps.

 

No apology needed mate.

The 3/4 that are 'on paper' set to leave are those who are out of contract or loans expiring.

The crop we have left after that lot are people like Adomah, Taylor, Nyland, McCormack, Thisbola, etc. - (Shite)

The decent ones we have remaining will be Grealish (who I think will be sold) McGinn and kalinic.

I was expecting Smith to get a tune out of what he inherited and kick us on (The honeymoon period backed this up). It was more than achievable.

However, something has gone drastically wrong and suddenly we look like a league 1 team. (We cannot keep using the no Axel & Jack excuse for this).

The amount of points dropped due to shit performances since december has been very alarming indeed.

I won't personally insult the man, just the football side of his ability which is suddenly looking very exposed and limited. That worries me the most.

I think had Neil Warnock or Allerdyce came in we would have seen a better shape, performances and results (imo).

Again, I didn't want Smith to begin with, Hiwever he arrived, I got behind him but since December I have had enough of the shit one dimension way we play and it does not look like improving.

If this keeps up until May there will be many more than just me pinning their flag to the mast of wanting him gone.

It was never a quick fix granted, but I expected better than the shit we are endured to at this moment in time.

I always had concerns, like others, that the minute things dipped he would not be able to turn it around. So far this has became evident. Is the job too big for him maybe?

[Jay.P.A]

5 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I admire the long post and get it's a long term build but Jeso' I expected the quality of the said builder to do better than he is given all his experience.

I wouldn't have hired him in the first place.

That's not to say I have not backed him which I have, I just expected better than what we are being shown and witnessing.

 

I could write a lot of spiel about Jack being out (Who I and most people would consider one of, if not the best player in the Championship) and Axel, who was in great form before breaking a metatarsal. You're literally taking out the spine of the team - Smith is used to having players which the 'advanced' ability on the ball - not the average players like Whelan, Jedinak, Hutton, Taylor, Adomah, etc, who have basic technique on the ball. 

Like I said his Brentford team have not just played us off the part just the once - it's literally every time we've faced them. It's not a coincidence and I wouldn't be surprised in 6 months time with a complete overhaul that we'll be playing better football which will help us in the long run.  

[AvfcRigo82]

1 minute ago, Jay.P.A said:

Like I said his Brentford team have not just played us off the part just the once - it's literally every time we've faced them. It's not a coincidence and I wouldn't be surprised in 6 months time with a complete overhaul that we'll be playing better football which will help us in the long run.  

Warranted, but his Brentford team never reached a play-off either, mid-table at the best more times than none. (I may be wrong here and happy to be corrected).

Some managers can go onto the next level, some can't. It's a shame really but that's football.

[LakotaDakota]

6 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

Like I said his Brentford team have not just played us off the part just the once - it's literally every time we've faced them. It's not a coincidence and I wouldn't be surprised in 6 months time with a complete overhaul that we'll be playing better football which will help us in the long run.  

Apart from this season where we should have hammered them but ended up having to rescue a late point after Nyland decided he needed extra slippy lube on his gloves that day

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don’t think you can judge any manager until he brings his own players in. So far Smith has bought in 4 players and has a 50% success rate. Whether it be smith in charge or somebody else. They won’t be able to achieve success with these same players that the past 2 managers have assembled.