Dean Smith

[Mantis]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

If you are asking me if I want a winning team first, in my criteria.

I would be a liar if I said different.

I don't see where we are going if we are not winning....simplistic as it may be, its what the end game is.

Steve Bruce lost his job, because we were not winning enough games and languishing in the bottom half of the table.

go and tell the Man City and Liverpool fans that winning doesn't matter the style is great.

Who said winning doesn't matter?

This isn't about style over results, it's about implementing a system that not only makes us better to watch but more importantly, gets better results. That takes time.

[KJT123]

This is the first time in a while that I’ve woken up after a defeat disappointed, but for the right reasons.

Normally I’m angry at the players for not putting the effort in, angry at the manager for setting up the team poorly, or angry with the style of football that we played.

This morning I feel empathy for both the players and the management. We pressed high up the pitch from the first kick, we played on the front foot, and we passed the ball out from the back despite some of our players clearly not being comfortable with it. The signs in the last three games have been very positive – the players are clearly buying into Smith’s ideas and it will only be a matter of time until we start converting our dominance into wins. Convincing wins at that, too.

Our defence is the problem and I’m not sure we’re going to be able to fix that until January. Instead, given that in our last two games we’ve been unable to break down the opposition’s defence while trailing, I suspect in training over the next week there will be a focus on creating chances.

In Bruce’s tenure we have relied on individual moments of brilliance to score goals rather than slick passing to carve open a defence. You can clearly see that there has been an emphasis on patience in the final third in the last three games. The ball will go wide, and instead of swinging in a cross to nobody in particular, we’ve tried to play around the box until a chance opens up. It’s a completely different way of playing and it’s going to take time to master.

We now have an extended period of time on the training pitch until next Friday. Against Bolton, I think we’ll see a team that are a lot more confident going forward, to the point where we’ll be able to create plenty of clear-cut chances and rack up a big scoreline.

[Tumblerseven]

I think we play bruce ball with minor changes. In norwich and swansea games that was very clearly to see. 

But to say that u cant see changes.. Like moving ball from the back or more passing or more ball control u have to be blind...

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Tumblerseven

[Brumstopdogs]

 

 

[sparrow1988]

11 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Is 11 o'clock too early for a pint of Guinness? I really fancy one after seeing this.....

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

I think we play bruce ball with minor changes. In norwich and swansea games that was very clearly to see. 

But to say that u cant see changes.. Like moving ball from the back or more passing or more ball control u have to be blind...

 

 

 

Or just have a different opinion?

I think we are possibly trying to play it out from the back a bit more. But I don't think it's massively noticeable. I think most of it is confirmation bias.

Like I said above, real change is going to take much longer to implement. I'm sure it'll come, but it may be a frustrating couple of months until it starts to take shape.

[DCJonah]

34 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

All true, but do we have time? If we don't go up this year, which is pretty much a given, then he'll be implementing his passing system with a whole bunch of new players and so it continues, like a never ending game of sliding squares. Unless I'm wrong of course, which is very possible.

He's had to do that at brentford and was fine.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Or just have a different opinion?

I think we are possibly trying to play it out from the back a bit more. But I don't think it's massively noticeable. I think most of it is confirmation bias.

Like I said above, real change is going to take much longer to implement. I'm sure it'll come, but it may be a frustrating couple of months until it starts to take shape.

Last night, each of our back 4 attempted 60 + passes each. When I have more time i will compare to previous games, but i'll be amazed if we have done that once this season. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Well it has been a bit of a baptism of fire, three tricky fixtures in 6 days, on the surface of it, 3 points isn't 'good enough'. However what's clear is that Smith really hasn't had a lot of time with the player and it's vital that he has the time to do three things:

(1) improve the players fitness - they just aren't fit enough to play a high press, high tempo style 

(2) Improve confidence on the ball - our midfielders do not demand the ball enough and do not get into good enough, advanced positions, this will come with Smith and his team having the time to coach this into our players 

(3) Sign his own players. We have massive problems through the 'spine' of the team, as well as at fullback. I fully expect Smith to sign at least one centre half, one full back and one central midfielder and even an option out wide.

Bottom line is Bruce left us in a terrible mess and it's going to take a while to unwind. Expecting promotion is a bit too much this season, what I expect is to see a young, talented side emerge with a distinct identity and style of football, that's what this season is about and not promotion. Personally, I've seem some pretty decent signs of the team developing already, good signs against Swansea, a pretty decent first half against Norwich and whilst not perfect, a pretty good showing in the second half last night, undone by poor finishing for the most part. 

The signs are there and I'm convinced Smith is the right man for the job, but we just need to be very patient.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Last night, each of our back 4 attempted 60 + passes each. When I have more time i will compare to previous games, but i'll be amazed if we have done that once this season. 

Cool. Will be interesting to see.

[Tumblerseven]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Or just have a different opinion?

I think we are possibly trying to play it out from the back a bit more. But I don't think it's massively noticeable. I think most of it is confirmation bias.

Like I said above, real change is going to take much longer to implement. I'm sure it'll come, but it may be a frustrating couple of months until it starts to take shape.

Well im sory its not an opinion question its a fact question.

We move ball from the back that a fact not an opinion. With bruce we played more defensive counter atacking ball. With dean we build from the back. THATS A FACT!

Data we get from variuos sources suports that fact. 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Tumblerseven

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

Well im sory its not an opinion question its a fact question.

We move ball from the back that a fact not an opinion. With bruce we played more defensive counter atacking ball. With dean we build from the back. THATS A FACT!

Data we get from variuos sources suports thats fact. 

 

I think you need to look up the definition of a fact.

 

But yes we do appear to be passing it out from the back a bit more. Like i already said. But overall there's not much difference IN MY OPINION.

I'm looking forward to a couple of months down the line when we really will be seeing some changes (I hope).

[Tumblerseven]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think you need to look up the definition of a fact.

 

But yes we do appear to be passing it out from the back a bit more. Like i already said. But overall there's not much difference IN MY OPINION.

I'm looking forward to a couple of months down the line when we really will be seeing some changes (I hope).

Why should i need to look at the definition of a fact?

Are u saying that our playing style changes is opinion not a fact?

Sir answer me this question please

Manchester City playing possession football thats a fact or thats an opinion?

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Tumblerseven

[Stevo985]

Just now, Tumblerseven said:

Why should i need to look at the definition of a fact?

Are u saying that our playing style changes is opinion not a fact?

 

I'm saying there's not much of a noticeable difference in playing style since Smith took over.

This isn't a criticism. More a reflection of how big a job Smith has on his hands. The change will come, but it will be a while before we see the results.

In my opinion.

If you think our playing style has noticeably changed then fair enough. Good for you. That's your opinion. It's not a fact.

[Tumblerseven]

 

17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm saying there's not much of a noticeable difference in playing style since Smith took over.

This isn't a criticism. More a reflection of how big a job Smith has on his hands. The change will come, but it will be a while before we see the results.

In my opinion.

If you think our playing style has noticeably changed then fair enough. Good for you. That's your opinion. It's not a fact.

Stevo u literaly quoted me when i said we playing bruce ball with minor changes. So ofc im not thinking we radicaly changed ir our playing style.

I think its very noticable that we move our attack from the back.

The thing is i dont ignore the minor clear changes we made.

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Tumblerseven

[Stratvillan]

The thing that's characterised our club over the last decade is short term thinking. Sell benteke, replace him with gestede, sell Milner replace him with Ireland, sign old players on big contracts for a quick fix. It has almost, literally, lead to our club going into liquidation. 

The opposite of this is long term thinking where we change our style of play which, if we get promoted, may mean we've could stay there and thrive. This will need windows where we recruit the right players long term. It's clear that we have a lot of average players, I'd imagine there'll be a few leaving in Jan, I'd be happy if we only signed A couple if they were right in the long term. 

I don't know if smith is the man, none of us do. But he he is the right kind of man, playing the right kind of football. It will take time. 

[PieFacE]

I was quite encouraged by our performance last night. Much better than the utter directionless tripe Bruce had us playing. It will turn around for us for sure. 

[Johnnyp]

58 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

I think we play bruce ball with minor changes. In norwich and swansea games that was very clearly to see. 

But to say that u cant see changes.. Like moving ball from the back or more passing or more ball control u have to be blind...

 

 

 

100% agree. You could see how reluctant Nyland and Axel were last night to go long. Clearly training ground stuff. Even Elmo kept it short when thumping it long is the automatic for him. Chester looks very uncomfortable on the left side of a CB pairing. Dunno can they work on that. Hopefully.

[villabromsgrove]

Stevo985 mentions "confirmation bias" and that's an astute comment.

I've wanted Dean Smith to be our manager for a long time because of his philosophy and ability to transfer that philosophy on to the pitch on match days.

I fully accept that we are just taking baby steps at this very early stage of his management, but already I'm seeing the green shoots of a 'plan' rather than the previous 'kick and hope' that we've endured for so long.

It's what I want to see, so I'm obviously going to jump on any indication that we're making that change. Last night was exciting for me .... It was the glimmer of an oasis in what was an endless desert. It might still be a mirage, but I'm a believer in Dean Smith's methods so to me it's the first sighting of water, rather than the reflection of a piteous sun bouncing off these burning sands.

As Stevo says, it's currently no more than "confirmation bias" at the moment.  I'm happy to accept that for now, but I can't wait to welcome you all to sit in the shade of a palm tree with an iced drink when the Villa oasis is finally a fully formed fact. 

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Stevo985 mentions "confirmation bias" and that's an astute comment.

I've wanted Dean Smith to be our manager for a long time because of his philosophy and ability to transfer that philosophy on to the pitch on match days.

I fully accept that we are just taking baby steps at this very early stage of his management, but already I'm seeing the green shoots of a 'plan' rather than the previous 'kick and hope' that we've endured for so long.

It's what I want to see, so I'm obviously going to jump on any indication that we're making that change. Last night was exciting for me .... It was the glimmer of an oasis in what was an endless desert. It might still be a mirage, but I'm a believer in Dean Smith's methods so to me it's the first sighting of water, rather than the reflection of a piteous sun bouncing off these burning sands.

As Stevo says, it's currently no more than "confirmation bias" at the moment.  I'm happy to accept that for now, but I can't wait to welcome you all to sit in the shade of a palm tree with an iced drink when the Villa oasis is finally a fully formed fact. 

It really isn't. And it's a little insulting to suggest this just because you haven't seen what others have.

Last night every player in our back 4 attempted over 60 passes each. I've checked the stats and as i suspected, we haven't come close to that in a single game under bruce this season. I suspect it would probably be the case for the majority of games under Bruce. We very clearly are attempting to keep the ball more, starting with our defenders.