Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 I wonder how many Brentford games all these people complimenting their style of play have actually watched... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 12 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: If Bruce does go, and I think he may well should promotion not be achieved. I wouldn't mind Dean Smith being given the chance to manage a club he dearly loves. And, tbh, I think he's worked wonders at Brentford, whilst playing some very decent football. if this wasn't the case his name wouldn't even be mentioned with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I wonder how many Brentford games all these people complimenting their style of play have actually watched... probably just the 2 vs us at their place last 2 seasons - from what (little) i've seen they're shambolic at the back...but everyone has their bogey teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, tomav84 said: probably just the 2 vs us at their place last 2 seasons - from what (little) i've seen they're shambolic at the back...but everyone has their bogey teams Yep, kind of my point. I bet Brentford have far more games where they play shite football than we do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, kind of my point. I bet Brentford have far more games where they play shite football than we do. And also much much worse players than us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: if this wasn't the case his name wouldn't even be mentioned with us Or Lee Johnson, I don't think he has any particular affinity to Aston Villa. But like the loving Villa supporter, Dean Smith, he has his teams playing some eye - catching football. It's the style of football that's important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: And also much much worse players than us.... Beside the point I was making, but sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, kind of my point. I bet Brentford have far more games where they play shite football than we do. Beg to differ. Brentford generally play an attractive, attacking style of football and rarely adopt a pragmatic approach to grind out a win. Not that I think Smith is right for Villa though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, choffer said: Beg to differ. Brentford generally play an attractive, attacking style of football and rarely adopt a pragmatic approach to grind out a win. Not that I think Smith is right for Villa though. He is pretty shit at the back though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, choffer said: Beg to differ. Brentford generally play an attractive, attacking style of football and rarely adopt a pragmatic approach to grind out a win. Do they? Do you watch them a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Do you watch them a lot? Not so much this season - only 9 games this year. STH 2 out of the last 4 years though. I'm still Villa but as GP is pretty much at the end of my street and work commitments mean I can't get up to Brum much, it's where I get my football fix. Edited May 9, 2018 by choffer I've bored off about Brentford on a few occasions in various threads before now - including my thoughts about Smith also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, choffer said: Not so much this season - only 9 games this year. STH 2 out of the last 4 years though. I'm still Villa but as GP is pretty much at the end of my street and work commitments mean I can't get up to Brum much, it's where I get my football fix. Fair enough Interesting to hear. My original point was aimed at the fact that i think a lot of us form our opinion of an opposition team based on the one or two games we see them play vs us in a season. So we have this view of teams that is really based on a tiny sample. So I guess that a lot of people on VT are saying "Brentford play good football" based on one or two games. And by that measure I bet there are a lot of other Championship teams who would say the same about Villa. But to hear it from someone who actually regularly watches them play means a lot more, imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: Fair enough Interesting to hear. My original point was aimed at the fact that i think a lot of us form our opinion of an opposition team based on the one or two games we see them play vs us in a season. So we have this view of teams that is really based on a tiny sample. So I guess that a lot of people on VT are saying "Brentford play good football" based on one or two games. And by that measure I bet there are a lot of other Championship teams who would say the same about Villa. But to hear it from someone who actually regularly watches them play means a lot more, imo At the risk of boring you and repeating what I've said in previous threads........... Brentford's owner is a boyhood fan. When he obtained the club, he insisted that he wanted his team to play an entertaining brand of football. It's in the fabric of everything they do. It means they get found out every once in a while by teams who aim to stifle their passing play. SHA did it a number of times in recent years by just parking the bus, soaking up the pressure and then countering with one solitary attack per game - never fun to watch. What they never do though, is compromise their footballing style. The pass out from the back and very rarely will you see the goalie launch one from the back. It's all about quick, incisive passing, lots of hard running off the ball and playing the last man on the shoulder (hence why Hogan had so much success). The phrase "moneyball" is often used about Brentford and although it's slightly wide of the mark, it's probably the easiest shorthand for how the club is run. Everything in the club is run based on statistical analysis and mathematical profiling. Recruitment, tactics, free kicks, substitutions, the lot. The 'system' is so embedded into the club that players typically outperform compared to their abilities - the sum being greater than the individual parts, etc. This is why (imo) their players tend to not perform as well when taken out of the system after going to another club. Notable exceptions, obviously (Tarkowski, Gray) but mostly players thrive at Brentford because they are so completely drilled in their role(s). I know this happens at most clubs to an extent but the level of analysis that goes into recruitment means that they maximise the potential of incoming players. The system is so all-encompassing that it makes it tough to highlight the true potential of a player once he is removed from it. Same goes for Smith, to an extent. He is operating well within the system but then so did Warburton until he decided to deviate from it and I think his true ability has been demonstrated since he left. Most Brentford fans like Smith and would probably want him to stick around but I think most would think that he benefits as much from the setup as he adds to it. Back to your original point though - I totally agree. The majority of fans form their opinions of other clubs in the league based on what they see when their team played them and very little else. This is why Woods is so highly regarded among Villa fans as he's had absolute stormers in most games against us. That's not to say he isn't a very good player but his role in the team makes him stand out a lot more than others. TL/DR - Your original point is correct although your application in this instance is slightly wide of the mark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I wonder how many Brentford games all these people complimenting their style of play have actually watched... 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, kind of my point. I bet Brentford have far more games where they play shite football than we do. Kind of contradicting yourself here - presumably you never watch them play (hence the first post) but then, having never watched them play, you "bet Brentford have far more games where the play shite football than we do"? Based on what? Their position in the table? I happen to think they play (generally, results and quality differences not withstanding) far more enjoyable football than we do. But, then again, the games I've seen them in are much more open so are more enjoyable to watch as a neutral. If I was a fan of Brentford, maybe I wouldn't want such an impetus on pace and attacking movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, bobzy said: Kind of contradicting yourself here - presumably you never watch them play (hence the first post) but then, having never watched them play, you "bet Brentford have far more games where the play shite football than we do"? Based on what? Their position in the table? I happen to think they play (generally, results and quality differences not withstanding) far more enjoyable football than we do. But, then again, the games I've seen them in are much more open so are more enjoyable to watch as a neutral. If I was a fan of Brentford, maybe I wouldn't want such an impetus on pace and attacking movement. It was a guess, hence the "I bet". Like I've already explained, it was a general point about us forming opinions of teams based on one or two games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: It was a guess, hence the "I bet". Like I've already explained, it was a general point about us forming opinions of teams based on one or two games. Always likely to be the case. I often wonder moreso about people who suggest certain European-based managers/players in the speculation threads. Whilst leagues may well be followed, how much is about how they play and not just the statistics being impressive? Discussion is good though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, bobzy said: Always likely to be the case. I often wonder moreso about people who suggest certain European-based managers/players in the speculation threads. Whilst leagues may well be followed, how much is about how they play and not just the statistics being impressive? Discussion is good though Exactly, much like when Arteta was suggested earlier in this thread as a potential new manager because we need "that sort of manager" How does anybody know what sort of manager Arteta is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Exactly, much like when Arteta was suggested earlier in this thread as a potential new manager because we need "that sort of manager" How does anybody know what sort of manager Arteta is? Is he even a manager? I don't know where he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Is he even a manager? I don't know where he is! He's an assistant coach at Man City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: He's an assistant coach at Man City So the type of manager we need is... one who is not a manager? Anyway, let the speculation continue... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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