The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[PaulC]

10 hours ago, sne said:

The cynic in me can't help but see VAR as another FFP basically put in place to make sure the big and powerful clubs gets the calls they need to go through while making sure no plucky upstarts make it through on a ref mistake.

Sure it will swing the other way on occasions, but yesterdays Plop game only enforced my belief in this.

Barcelona will get calls that Vardar Skopje or Cercle Brugge never will for situations that will look virtually identical. And VAR is not going to change this.

Probably only make it worse.

The opposite for me Refs tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the bigger clubs, VAR will balance that out. 

[ThunderPower_14]

On 10/04/2019 at 19:49, sne said:

Might as well make it illegal to jump in football as it is impossible to jump and keep the balance while clutching your arms to the side.

 

If you can't jump to where you want to get without risking a handball, then you probably shouldn't be jumping that far. These handball incidents are always players throwing themselves into a block and then blocking the ball with their arms and then claiming  they couldn't have possibly known.

It's your responsibility to block a shot without using your arms. It's not complicated.

 

On 10/04/2019 at 20:52, sne said:

The cynic in me can't help but see VAR as another FFP basically put in place to make sure the big and powerful clubs gets the calls they need to go through while making sure no plucky upstarts make it through on a ref mistake.

Sure it will swing the other way on occasions, but yesterdays Plop game only enforced my belief in this.

Barcelona will get calls that Vardar Skopje or Cercle Brugge never will for situations that will look virtually identical. And VAR is not going to change this.

Probably only make it worse.

I actually think it'll go the other way. Refs tend to be intimidated by big clubs and might give them the benefit of the doubt in live action, but if the VAR officials who don't have as much pressure on them see something, they can give the ref a look from a bunch of different angles so he can be sure of his decision.

[sne]

On 12/04/2019 at 14:29, ThunderPower_14 said:

 

If you can't jump to where you want to get without risking a handball, then you probably shouldn't be jumping that far. These handball incidents are always players throwing themselves into a block and then blocking the ball with their arms and then claiming  they couldn't have possibly known.

It's your responsibility to block a shot without using your arms. It's not complicated.

 

I actually think it'll go the other way. Refs tend to be intimidated by big clubs and might give them the benefit of the doubt in live action, but if the VAR officials who don't have as much pressure on them see something, they can give the ref a look from a bunch of different angles so he can be sure of his decision.

 I'm old granted, but try jumping without using your arms for balance, especially in a duel with someone. It's almost impossible.

 

 

 Would be lovely if this was the case.

I don't think it will be thou.

It's UEFA/FIFA we are talking about here. 2 utterly from the ground up corrupt organisations who in UEFA's case is run by the leaders of an select group of elite clubs and their Qatari ovelord.

[sne]

Case in point.

Last night in the ladies World Cup final in Ice Hockey there were absolute farcical scenes when Finland scored the game winning goal against USA.

An absolutely correct goal that sent them celebrating and crying with joy in a big heap on the ice, only to have someone in the VAR room disallow it for some reason no one has been able to understand or make sense of.

The game was restarted and ended up with USA winning on penalties. A total joke.

Since Canada and the USA run Ice Hockey and make every decision  it's hard not to think that this horrible call from the VAR room was not made after pressure from upstairs.

This is exactly how I think it will end up in football as well.

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, sne said:

Since Canada and the USA run Ice Hockey and make every decision  it's hard not to think that this horrible call from the VAR room was not made after pressure from upstairs.

This is exactly how I think it will end up in football as well.

I don’t fully understand this view. If officials were going to be corrupt, then surely they’d be corrupt with or without VAR? 

[CharlieAitken59]

The only 'clear and obvious' thing is that VAR kills the beautiful game!

Its claimed that VAR will make the game 'fairer'..... that is the 'supposed' USP banded around!  Can someone please explain to me HOW it can possibly be fairer without checking EVERY decision?  Ok, give a penalty for a forward clearly tripped in the area.....but what if he was tripped following 'a wrongly given corner/throw in/free kick?..... what's clear and obvious to me is  the resultant penalty is nonsense.....is that fair? Moreover, if the free kick, throw in was guven correctly (to the right team) who's to say that they wouldn't have gone down the other end and scored....so now they are potentially a goal down when they could have been a goal up......can someone tell me whats faiir' in this examplle?  And yes, this happens all the time!.......I've seen 3 such incidents this weekend!

 

Whats fair if Manure are a goal up at Rochdale in the FA cup with 5 mins to go when Rochdale should have been awarded a 'stonewall' penalty......referee doesn't give it and Rochdale do not have VAR (due to the cost)! .......how is that fair?  Literally £millions lost by Rochdale in terms of lost revenue that a replay at Old Trafford would have yielded!

Clear and obvious/fair/simplified/correct..... you're having a laugh!

VAR.....not for me.....dont kill our game!  And before you say it, I usually embrace changes, but this one is not good for football IMO

 

[PieFacE]

If it overturns more bad decisions than it creates then it's a step forward. I don't really understand what the uproar is about it. Is it going to be 100% accurate? No. Will it be more accurate than referees officiating the game without it? Yes.

It's pretty simple. Even if only 5% of bad decisions are getting changed, it's still better. I suspect it would be considerably higher than that though. There's always going to be debatable outcomes, until we have robots officiating the game we always will. 

47 minutes ago, CharlieAitken59 said:

Whats fair if Manure are a goal up at Rochdale in the FA cup with 5 mins to go when Rochdale should have been awarded a 'stonewall' penalty......referee doesn't give it and Rochdale do not have VAR (due to the cost)! .......how is that fair?  Literally £millions lost by Rochdale in terms of lost revenue that a replay at Old Trafford would have yielded!

 

 

I take it you're against goal-line technology too then? 

Edited April 15, 2019 by PieFacE

[CharlieAitken59]

No, I've always been for it.  This is the only change that i haven't agreed with after 60 years watching!

[Davkaus]

3 hours ago, CharlieAitken59 said:

 

Whats fair if Manure are a goal up at Rochdale in the FA cup with 5 mins to go when Rochdale should have been awarded a 'stonewall' penalty......referee doesn't give it and Rochdale do not have VAR (due to the cost)! .......how is that fair?  Literally £millions lost by Rochdale in terms of lost revenue that a replay at Old Trafford would have yielded!

...But that is what happens now.

Are you saying you don't see the point in having VAR iuf we can't have it in every single match?

[CharlieAitken59]

Yes, if lower league clubs cant afford it (see my example about FA cup games)! And yes, if you dont look at EVERY decision then it cant possibly be fair and correct. In other words its no different to what we already have!  ....so pointless IMO as well as grossly unfair in many situations.

[Mic09]

I really enjoy philosophy, debates, politics and generally asking too many questions.

Yet I cannot see a single valid argument against VAR. 

Its a little like arguing against the linesmen. In fact, it's exactly like it. Any argument used against VAR can be used against using a linesmen. 

But we want to keep them, right?

[PieFacE]

15 hours ago, CharlieAitken59 said:

No, I've always been for it.  This is the only change that i haven't agreed with after 60 years watching!

But lower league clubs don't have goal line tech, how is that fair? 

[bannedfromHandV]

18 hours ago, PieFacE said:

If it overturns more bad decisions than it creates then it's a step forward. I don't really understand what the uproar is about it. Is it going to be 100% accurate? No. Will it be more accurate than referees officiating the game without it? Yes.

It's pretty simple. Even if only 5% of bad decisions are getting changed, it's still better. I suspect it would be considerably higher than that though. There's always going to be debatable outcomes, until we have robots officiating the game we always will. 

I take it you're against goal-line technology too then? 

Goal-line tech is great because a) it's quick, instantaneous in fact and b) it's definitive (i.e. the ball either crosses the line or not).

VAR is anything but quick and kills the momentum in games (much of football is about momentum), it's also being used to determine indeterminate things like penalty calls, handballs - things that are essentially a matter of opinion.

I've said it for a while but if anything will destroy my love for the game it's VAR...............one of the greatest passages of football for me was that playoff semi-final they always show, Watford against someone....anyway, the 'someone' (whoever they were) got given a penalty in the 90th minute to win the game, they missed the peno and Watford went immediately to the other end of the pitch and scored (or may have even been awarded their own penalty, I don't recall exactly) but anyway, they score and won the game, went to Wembley and got promoted.

That entire passage may/probably wouldn't have occurred with VAR involved and that's what I think we'll lose - the fluidity, the pace and the passion in football.

[tomav84]

from what i've seen the biggest problem with VAR is the individuals using it. the decisions i have seen are in no shape or form clear and obvious errors. that handball last week certainly wasnt. until the officials use it correctly, you'll still have the same problems we have today

[tomav84]

17 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I've said it for a while but if anything will destroy my love for the game it's VAR...............one of the greatest passages of football for me was that playoff semi-final they always show, Watford against someone....anyway, the 'someone' (whoever they were) got given a penalty in the 90th minute to win the game, they missed the peno and Watford went immediately to the other end of the pitch and scored (or may have even been awarded their own penalty, I don't recall exactly) but anyway, they score and won the game, went to Wembley and got promoted.

That entire passage may/probably wouldn't have occurred with VAR involved and that's what I think we'll lose - the fluidity, the pace and the passion in football.

thing is as sensational as that was, how frequently do you see passages of play like that? almost never...i remember that...it really was something else. i actually cheered when deeney (i think) scored at the other end. but what if that pen had gone in? how unjust that would have been, as it was a clear dive. OK watford lost the final in the end, but that bad decision could have cost them a PL place.

for me, i wont be any less pleased that we scored if we had to wait a minute or 2 to find out. i guess the celebrations themselves would just be less passionate. similar i guess to a penalty rather than a goal from open play. we all still cheer etc, but the celebrations are noticeably less passionate...but they are still celebrations nevertheless

 

edit: and actually, if used properly (clear and obvious error) the VAR official should be able to make his/her mind up instantly. if they cant, then its neither clear not obvious and they move on. maybe they should introduce that? the VAR official has 10 seconds to decide, if it takes any longer then it's clearly not stone wall

Edited April 16, 2019 by tomav84

[bannedfromHandV]

2 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

thing is as sensational as that was, how frequently do you see passages of play like that? almost never...i remember that...it really was something else. i actually cheered when deeney (i think) scored at the other end. but what if that pen had gone in? how unjust that would have been, as it was a clear dive. OK watford lost the final in the end, but that bad decision could have cost them a PL place.

for me, i wont be any less pleased that we scored if we had to wait a minute or 2 to find out. i guess the celebrations themselves would just be less passionate. similar i guess to a penalty rather than a goal from open play. we all still cheer etc, but the celebrations are noticeably less passionate...but they are still celebrations nevertheless

But that's what I go to watch football for, it's how I justify £30+ for a ticket and then petrol money and time - to lose myself in a moment of utter joy.

Take that away and what do we go to a football match for? Shit food in the concourses, watered down beer costing £5 a pop?

And football is all about those iconic moments, sure they're few and far between but that's what makes them special and memorable.

[CharlieAitken59]

2 hours ago, PieFacE said:

But lower league clubs don't have goal line tech, how is that fair? 

Well, clearly its not fair if  its a cup game and there is a possibility of a replay where one team has VAR and goal line technology and the other doesn't.....surely thats impossible to justify!

[CharlieAitken59]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Goal-line tech is great because a) it's quick, instantaneous in fact and b) it's definitive (i.e. the ball either crosses the line or not).

VAR is anything but quick and kills the momentum in games (much of football is about momentum), it's also being used to determine indeterminate things like penalty calls, handballs - things that are essentially a matter of opinion.

I've said it for a while but if anything will destroy my love for the game it's VAR...............one of the greatest passages of football for me was that playoff semi-final they always show, Watford against someone....anyway, the 'someone' (whoever they were) got given a penalty in the 90th minute to win the game, they missed the peno and Watford went immediately to the other end of the pitch and scored (or may have even been awarded their own penalty, I don't recall exactly) but anyway, they score and won the game, went to Wembley and got promoted.

That entire passage may/probably wouldn't have occurred with VAR involved and that's what I think we'll lose - the fluidity, the pace and the passion in football.

This is 100% the way I feel about VAR as well!

[CharlieAitken59]

15 hours ago, Mic09 said:

I really enjoy philosophy, debates, politics and generally asking too many questions.

Yet I cannot see a single valid argument against VAR. 

Its a little like arguing against the linesmen. In fact, it's exactly like it. Any argument used against VAR can be used against using a linesmen. 

But we want to keep them, right?

If you read my post then you will see more than one valid argument against VAR or in what are my examples not valid?

Don't forget that the supposed USP for VAR is to "ensure a fair and correct result in EVERY game". Please tell me how this is possible when it can only be used in 4  ways!

[CharlieAitken59]

17 hours ago, Davkaus said:

...But that is what happens now.

Are you saying you don't see the point in having VAR iuf we can't have it in every single match?

I think my example is pretty much self-explanatory!