Mic09 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: What if it is implemented and we lose a final because of it? There's two sides to everything, particularly something like this. If we lost because of a violation of rules on our side than no one can complain. I'm sorry but I really don't get this argument. Its literally like saying let's get rid of linesmen in case we get an office decision go our way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mic09 said: If we lost because of a violation of rules on our side than no one can complain. I'm sorry but I really don't get this argument. Its literally like saying let's get rid of linesmen in case we get an office decision go our way. Agreed. If we lost a final because VAR made the right decision then that’s heartbreaking for us but it’s the right decision so nobody can complain. I also fail to see how the Watford leicester playoff semi final dramatics wouldn’t have happened with VAR. There was no violation or hint of one between Knockheart missing and Deeney scoring. VAR would have made no difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, CharlieAitken59 said: Lol... that's a very poor attempt at backtracking! Please highlight the backtracking. Quote Whats musguided about wanting fairness? That's the VAR USP! You're letting perfect be the enemy of good. We can improve fairness at high levels. We can't yet do so at all levels. Why not make games more fair where the funding is available? Why make all games less fair to have consistent unfairness rather than making improvements where we can? Quote And btw....it will NOT be in use in the championship next season. Yup, my mistake. It's surely a matter of time, but no plans for it just yet. Quote The more you dig the less cogent your argument becomes! Yet the only thing you've actually specified that i'm wrong about is Championship VAR (which i'm happy to admit I got wrong), otherwise you just go on vaguely about backtracking and throw 'cogent' around like it's your word of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, Mic09 said: If we lost because of a violation of rules on our side than no one can complain. I'm sorry but I really don't get this argument. Its literally like saying let's get rid of linesmen in case we get an office decision go our way. Maybe so but a year or two previous and without VAR we'd win whichever hypothetical final we're competing for, under current rules and under the entire history of football, we'd win whichever hypothetical final we're competing for - that's football, you win some you lose some as has happened to us on multiple occasions. Let me reposition my stance a little, id happily see VAR for determining things that are definitive - was it offside, was it in or out of the box, over the line or not but not for dubious fouls and/or handballs. It's also going to be another step toward football becoming non-contact if penalties are going to be given every time they can prove the feintest of touches. If you focus on the positives of it all then yeah, it seems great, in principle it is great, but there are negatives or at least potential negatives that have to be factored in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted April 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Mic09 said: What if that happened in a champions League final that Villa played in that cost us the game? 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: What if it is implemented and we lose a final because of it? There's two sides to everything, particularly something like this. i could handle losing any game fairly. it sucks, it hurts, but you accept it, whether a correctly used VAR decision contributed to that loss or not losing a game because of a shite decision hurts 10 times more. i still **** despise dowd for bottling the vidic decision. in time it would be improved. every single rugby try is reviewed but you wouldnt know half the time. it would be done by the time the celebrations subsided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Agreed. If we lost a final because VAR made the right decision then that’s heartbreaking for us but it’s the right decision so nobody can complain. I also fail to see how the Watford leicester playoff semi final dramatics wouldn’t have happened with VAR. There was no violation or hint of one between Knockheart missing and Deeney scoring. VAR would have made no difference. It was just an example stevo, I have no idea if there would have been any infringement to have stopped play, it was just one that sticks in my mind to illustrate how frenetic and topsy-turvy it can be. I worry about VAR interrupting the flow of the game and therefore perhaps impacting on those kind of situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Agreed. If we lost a final because VAR made the right decision then that’s heartbreaking for us but it’s the right decision so nobody can complain. I also fail to see how the Watford leicester playoff semi final dramatics wouldn’t have happened with VAR. There was no violation or hint of one between Knockheart missing and Deeney scoring. VAR would have made no difference. I think Knockaert dived so the events after would never have happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 17, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Zatman said: I think Knockaert dived so the events after would never have happened I’m not sure that’s what the OP meant. But even so we’re then saying a player cheated to gain and vantage and VAR would have got the right decision. That’s not a drawback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Levante are fuming that in 7 games in 2019 so far VAR has made thr incorrect decision against them 3 of these resulted in wins by penalties from Bilbao, Real and Atletico and a game they should have had 2 penalties 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Big clubs getting helped by VAR while smaller clubs not so much seem utterly predictable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Davkaus said: Please highlight the backtracking. You're letting perfect be the enemy of good. We can improve fairness at high levels. We can't yet do so at all levels. Why not make games more fair where the funding is available? Why make all games less fair to have consistent unfairness rather than making improvements where we can? Yup, my mistake. It's surely a matter of time, but no plans for it just yet. Yet the only thing you've actually specified that i'm wrong about is Championship VAR (which i'm happy to admit I got wrong), otherwise you just go on vaguely about backtracking and throw 'cogent' around like it's your word of the day. Lol....there you go again! I will try to explain! Yes, cogent is an everyday word! It means illogical and unconvincing! Therefore if VAR doesn't achieve its USP (fairness and the correct result) then its flawed! Hope this helps! Not to worry if you didnt know what cogent meant!.I will leave it there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, Zatman said: Levante are fuming that in 7 games in 2019 so far VAR has made thr incorrect decision against them 3 of these resulted in wins by penalties from Bilbao, Real and Atletico and a game they should have had 2 penalties This....VAR is flawed in so many ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, sne said: Big clubs getting helped by VAR while smaller clubs not so much seem utterly predictable. This 100% correct and it will only get worse IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, CharlieAitken59 said: Lol....there you go again! I will try to explain! Yes, cogent is an everyday word! It means illogical and unconvincing! Therefore if VAR doesn't achieve its USP (fairness and the correct result) then its flawed! Hope this helps! Not to worry if you didnt know what cogent meant!.I will leave it there! Wrong. Fake news. Not going to explain my perspective, you're just not very cogent mate, I'll leave it there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Wrong. Fake news. Not going to explain my perspective, you're just not very cogent mate, I'll leave it there. Nice Donald Trump quote....are they you're words of the day? Good to see that yiu now know what cogent means.....no need to thank me lol Keep calm....keep cogent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2019 On 15/04/2019 at 17:47, CharlieAitken59 said: Whats fair if Manure are a goal up at Rochdale in the FA cup with 5 mins to go when Rochdale should have been awarded a 'stonewall' penalty......referee doesn't give it and Rochdale do not have VAR (due to the cost)! .......how is that fair? Literally £millions lost by Rochdale in terms of lost revenue that a replay at Old Trafford would have yielded! In your argument against VAR, you have actually made a convincing argument for VAR. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 17, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, CharlieAitken59 said: This....VAR is flawed in so many ways! That's not really VAR being flawed. That's the people applying it being flawed. It's like saying we shouldn't have referees because they favour the big teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted April 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That's not really VAR being flawed. That's the people applying it being flawed. It's like saying we shouldn't have referees because they favour the big teams. My stance exactly 17 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Let me reposition my stance a little, id happily see VAR for determining things that are definitive - was it offside, was it in or out of the box, over the line or not but not for dubious fouls and/or handballs. And similar to the point above...VAR is not supposed to be clarifying the dubious. is the clear and obvious decisions it's designed to eliminate. the criticisms of it in its current state are that the refs that have used it are using it incorrectly...it's really not rocket science but refs are making it so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 hours ago, fightoffyour said: In your argument against VAR, you have actually made a convincing argument for VAR. No, no....my argument is that everybody doesn't have or can't afford it. If that's the case then I'm against it. I may have a change of heart when it becomes a level playing field. But not in favour as it stands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 17, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CharlieAitken59 said: No, no....my argument is that everybody doesn't have or can't afford it. If that's the case then I'm against it. I may have a change of heart when it becomes a level playing field. But not in favour as it stands! I've never understood this argument either. Not everybody has linesmen. I played Sunday league and occasional Saturday league for years and probably had proper linesemen twice. So presumably you're against them? Or 4th officials? or goalline officials? Or goalline technology? Or vanishing spray? Or mic'd up officials? Or technical areas? Or electronic boards for the fourth official? Or more than one match ball? None of those can be had and/or afforded by everyone. I agree that there needs to be a level playing field within specific competitions. For example the FA cup this year, I don't think it's right that VAR was available in some games and not others. But I don't agree with the argument that just because a non league team can't afford something or have something in the 9th tier league of football means the premier league shouldn't have them either. Edited April 17, 2019 by Stevo985 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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