The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[sne]

11 minutes ago, bobzy said:

They are - but I think it's going to muddy the waters even more.  Outside a "natural silhouette" - OK then!

Will be perfect.

All the ref has to do is apply one of these to the VAR video and see it matches.

Then again footballers are supposed to jump while holding their hands flush to their bodies so they might have to come up with a new set of pictures.

[Zatman]

A few years ago La Liga brought in automatic yellow cards for any handball and led to madness in first few weeks in the season 

[PieFacE]

57 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

For me VAR has to ditch the "clear and obvious error" stuff. It's just so often misunderstood or misused.

Why does it have to be defined like that? Just make it that it refers incidents that VAR thinks needs to be reviewed.

Was thinking the exact same thing earlier as I saw a tweet from Gary Lineker. 

Having it defined like that just creates more grey area like "handballs need to be deliberate". 

It just needs to be defined as "VAR will be used at the official team's discretion". Job done. 

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by PieFacE

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, bobzy said:

What's natural, though?  Going to be awful to implement. 

You're right. But again I think it'll be far clearer than "deliberate".

Handballs are almost never deliberate. But you can't have a defender with his arms outstretched blocking a ball and getting away with it because it's not deliberate.

 

FWIW I still think it wouldn't be a bad idea to go even further and just have any contact with the arm as a handball. Deliberate or not, unnatural position or not. If it hits your hand then sorry, handball.

[Vive_La_Villa]

These handball decision are seriously pissing me off. First the World Cup final and now two big champions league game.

Not one person in the ground thought for a second that was a penalty yesterday and there would have been zero discussion about it afterwards. 

Yet once the referee was told in his ear he has to look at it again he had no choice but to give the penalty because of this new stupid interpretation of handball bought in to accommodate Var! 

Its going to ruin the game.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

 

Yet once the referee was told in his ear he has to look at it again he had no choice but to give the penalty because of this new stupid interpretation of handball bought in to accommodate Var! 

I don't think the interpretation of handball has changed.

I think what's happening with handballs is two fold. I think firstly slowed down replays of handballs make them look much worse than they actually are.

Secondly I think referees are feeling under pressure, partly because of what i mentioned above with the "clear and obvious" stuff, to overturn decisions when they're referred to VAR. I think refs need to feel more free to review the decision and give their own interpretation instead of thinking "well VAR have asked me to look at it so I must be wrong!"

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think the interpretation of handball has changed.

I think what's happening with handballs is two fold. I think firstly slowed down replays of handballs make them look much worse than they actually are.

Secondly I think referees are feeling under pressure, partly because of what i mentioned above with the "clear and obvious" stuff, to overturn decisions when they're referred to VAR. I think refs need to feel more free to review the decision and give their own interpretation instead of thinking "well VAR have asked me to look at it so I must be wrong!"

Or maybe the decision can be given by those assistants sitting in a box looking at screens. Between them be allowed to make a decision. Feels like they passing all the responsibility and scrunity on to the ref.

[Stevo985]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Or maybe the decision can be given by those assistants sitting in a box looking at screens. Between them be allowed to make a decision. Feels like they passing all the responsibility and scrunity on to the ref.

Well yeah that's kind of my point.

If the rule is that it only gets referred when a clear and obvious error HAS been made, then just let VAR make the decision. Don't have the pantomime of the ref reviewing it. That clear and obvious rule means the ref is thinking "well if they all think this is a clear and obvious error then I have to overturn it"

 

If the ref has the authority to review it then don't say it's a clear and obvious error. Frame it as something that needs the ref to review and let him review it.

 

I'm a big advocate of VAR, but I think that's one of the main issues. I think generally VAR is improving decisions, but handballs I think are the one thing it's hindering right now.

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, sne said:

Not sure if it's one of the things VAR is allowed to inform the ref about but at least 1 Spurs player was very, very early into the penalty area, way before Kun hit the penalty.

And as always the goalie moved out from the goal line too early to stop the shot.

I've ranted about this before. But those are two great examples of rules that football has but seems scared to actually enforce.

Same as the 6 second rule for keepers or time wasting in general or things like the foul throw.

Either have the rule and enforce it, or don't have the rule. This halfway house because they're afraid of upsetting people for a few weeks is stupid.

Just book a goalkeeper if he moves off his line before a penalty. Or properly enforce a retake if it's saved if a yellow is too harsh. It'll soon stop.

[villa4europe]

said before they are changing the rule, the ball is dead after the penalty, so if its saved / hits the post whatever the play stops, means they don't have to enforce encroachment

I think they've made a tweak to the GK position too but I cant remember what it is

[villa4europe]

and there's every danger handball will just end up the same as the foot rule in hockey

the cynic in me says diving will be replaced by players cute enough to dink the ball up off someone's hand and win a penalty (not sure if that's a thing in hockey, purposefully playing it off someone's foot to win a penalty corner)

[Stevo985]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

and there's every danger handball will just end up the same as the foot rule in hockey

the cynic in me says diving will be replaced by players cute enough to dink the ball up off someone's hand and win a penalty (not sure if that's a thing in hockey, purposefully playing it off someone's foot to win a penalty corner)

I think that's a better scenario than the current situation.

[Stevo985]

16 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

said before they are changing the rule, the ball is dead after the penalty, so if its saved / hits the post whatever the play stops, means they don't have to enforce encroachment

They have, but to me that seems like a weird solution to a simple problem. It's like having your foot amputated because you've got an ingrowing toenail.

[Zatman]

22 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

and there's every danger handball will just end up the same as the foot rule in hockey

the cynic in me says diving will be replaced by players cute enough to dink the ball up off someone's hand and win a penalty (not sure if that's a thing in hockey, purposefully playing it off someone's foot to win a penalty corner)

Defenders keep the hands at the side it wont be an issue. Kimpembe one was dreadful borderline cowardly defending and got what he deserved

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

They have, but to me that seems like a weird solution to a simple problem. It's like having your foot amputated because you've got an ingrowing toenail.

I think its good move. Frustrates me all the bullahit happening behind the taker trying to put them off. Players will be in centre circle going forward

[villa4europe]

I like it too, I think the penalty obviously strongly favours the attacker, shit if the keeper pulls off a worldie only to see it drop straight back to the feet of the attacker

[sne]

35 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

and there's every danger handball will just end up the same as the foot rule in hockey

the cynic in me says diving will be replaced by players cute enough to dink the ball up off someone's hand and win a penalty (not sure if that's a thing in hockey, purposefully playing it off someone's foot to win a penalty corner)

They are about to change the rule again (for the 100th time) for next season, possibly to allow kicking all together.

But the big issue this season in the SHL (Swedish league) has been goalie interference. As in a player being vaguely in the same vicinity as the goalie and possibly touching the goalie, or standing in the goalie area.

No one knows the exact rules and absolutely identical situations are reviewed with VAR and given different outcome. Sometimes in the same game.

It's and absolute joke. Must be 50 goals this season that has been called off and no one want's to take responsibility for the mess.

This was a few days apart, one was a goal the other not. But strangely enough the other way round from what you'd expect when looking at the picture.

                                                       Goal                                                                                               No goal

     Obviously my team Färjestad was screwed both times.

[sne]

Might as well make it illegal to jump in football as it is impossible to jump and keep the balance while clutching your arms to the side.

[sne]

The cynic in me can't help but see VAR as another FFP basically put in place to make sure the big and powerful clubs gets the calls they need to go through while making sure no plucky upstarts make it through on a ref mistake.

Sure it will swing the other way on occasions, but yesterdays Plop game only enforced my belief in this.

Barcelona will get calls that Vardar Skopje or Cercle Brugge never will for situations that will look virtually identical. And VAR is not going to change this.

Probably only make it worse.

[sharkyvilla]

Personally I dont see an issue that if someone has a shot on goal that gets stopped by a defender's hand, then they can get another go from a penalty.  What they have to do is make as much as the decision making black and white rather than down to interpretation.  I think this is a good start but like in other sports like cricket it has taken a while to iron out all the different issues that can crop up along the way.