Active Shooter On Las Vegas Strip

[magnkarl]

There are some very easy ways to deal with the gun problem and still let Cleetus keep his gun.

a. 60 day waiting period - this is proven time and time again to stop crimes of passion. Canada alone is enough proof for this.

b. Don't sell automatic weapons, silencers, repeaters, laser sights, night vision sights or any other offensive additions to guns. 

c. Teach people that you are much less likely to die if you defend yourself with one of the multitudes of self defense techniques out there.

d. Cap the amount of guns you can have at 1 pistol and 1 rifle\shotgun for hunting (like Canada). This douchebag would not kill more than 2 people had he had to reload his high powered hunting rifle rather than his AR-15, AUG or whatever he was using.

f. Cap the amount of bullets you can buy and put up an effective country wide registry so that you can't just go to the next wallmart and buy more.

g. Increase punishment for illegally carrying, buying illegally, selling illegally and so on. The current terms for these crimes are on the same level as stealing someone's letter or urinating in public.

h. Ban all gun commercials, all "keep your family safe"-crap that involves kids and elderly and make it hurt for the companies persisting.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by magnkarl

[coda]

So disappointed ISIS lied to us. Just don't know who to trust these days.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, colhint said:

If I'm reading this right, and it's earlyish, trying to go over the maths in my head. 

3% of Americans own 50% of the guns in the US.

Guardian US guns in numbers

Does this suggest that 47% don't have guns at all. If so this is good, maybe that will increase, and all hope isn't  lost.

The question of 'having guns' is in itself a tricky one. Being able to use a gun is not restricted to gun owners themselves, as family members, lodgers or anyone else with access to a property can also access and use any guns stored there. The Pew survey on gun demographics I posted yesterday suggested that around a third of Americans are 'gun owners', with another 10% living with easy access to guns, although it seems likely to me that this number doesn't include children or those who have guns illegally. 

[LondonLax]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The question of 'having guns' is in itself a tricky one. Being able to use a gun is not restricted to gun owners themselves, as family members, lodgers or anyone else with access to a property can also access and use any guns stored there. The Pew survey on gun demographics I posted yesterday suggested that around a third of Americans are 'gun owners', with another 10% living with easy access to guns, although it seems likely to me that this number doesn't include children or those who have guns illegally. 

We make our phones with fingerprint scans or pin codes for access, it would not be difficult to have the same system to unlock the safety on a modern gun. It would require some political regulation to have it mandated though which is never going to happen. It also wouldn't get rid of the 300m guns already in circulation in the US but over time it could become the norm.   

[Chindie]

7 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

We make our phones with fingerprint scans or pin codes for access, it would not be difficult to have the same system to unlock the safety on a modern gun. It would require some political regulation to have it mandated though which is never going to happen. It also wouldn't get rid of the 300m guns already in circulation in the US but over time it could become the norm.   

Funnily enough I believe Australia does (did?) produce a 'digital' gun with things like fingerprint scanning and so on.

But the US is never going for that and unfortunately guns are rather simple machines at heart that tend to be serviceable for decades, especially if maintained, so even if you immediately instituted all guns have ID checks there's millions that don't.

And that wouldn't stop the rightful owner of said digital gun deciding to go kill a few dozen because he's angry and wants to take a few with him before the Berretta blowjob.

It's unsolvable. America believes the price of freedom is thousands of deaths a year, and nobody will tell them otherwise.

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, Paddywhack said:

Paw prints on your driveway, claw marks across your front door, brown fur caught on a few door handles and a big pile of crap in your living room.

You: "Those ISIS bastards..."

You know me too well.

[HanoiVillan]

29 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Funnily enough I believe Australia does (did?) produce a 'digital' gun with things like fingerprint scanning and so on.

But the US is never going for that and unfortunately guns are rather simple machines at heart that tend to be serviceable for decades, especially if maintained, so even if you immediately instituted all guns have ID checks there's millions that don't.

And that wouldn't stop the rightful owner of said digital gun deciding to go kill a few dozen because he's angry and wants to take a few with him before the Berretta blowjob.

It's unsolvable. America believes the price of freedom is thousands of deaths a year, and nobody will tell them otherwise.

I'm also sceptical that a 'digital gun' is in fact all that hard to override. Guns are simple mechanical items at the end of the day, and fairly easy to change. 

There's also the increasing danger presented (to both shooter and public) of 3D-printed guns to consider. 

[peterms]

Me and my friends had potato guns as children. Maybe that would be a suitable compromise with the gun lobby?  As many potato guns as you want, open carry.  Wear fancy dress and make pshaww noises as well if you like.

[osmark86]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm also sceptical that a 'digital gun' is in fact all that hard to override. Guns are simple mechanical items at the end of the day, and fairly easy to change. 

There's also the increasing danger presented (to both shooter and public) of 3D-printed guns to consider. 

exactly. guns are mechanical whereas fingerprint/pin locks are for encryption security, hence mathematical. fingerprint locks for guns would probably be installed to unlock/lock a firing mechanism which could most likely be bypassed by removing the digitally triggered lock. in any case, like Chindie said, I highly doubt that would make a difference in most cases (referring to the aptly illustrated Beretta bj example)

[Chindie]

10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm also sceptical that a 'digital gun' is in fact all that hard to override. Guns are simple mechanical items at the end of the day, and fairly easy to change. 

There's also the increasing danger presented (to both shooter and public) of 3D-printed guns to consider. 

I'm no expert but I recall the digital gun was completely electronic. It didn't have a mechanical mechanism to fire, the trigger was effectively a button for an electronic firing of the bullet. Whether the actual safety mechanism was particularly robust I've no idea, famously finger print scans are incredibly easy to fool if you're minded to do so.

The open source 3d printed gun is a worry. Thankfully they aren't very long lasting, as start to degrade from the first shot. But that will only get 'better' as 3d printing improves.

[HanoiVillan]

16 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I'm no expert but I recall the digital gun was completely electronic. It didn't have a mechanical mechanism to fire, the trigger was effectively a button for an electronic firing of the bullet. Whether the actual safety mechanism was particularly robust I've no idea, famously finger print scans are incredibly easy to fool if you're minded to do so.

The open source 3d printed gun is a worry. Thankfully they aren't very long lasting, as start to degrade from the first shot. But that will only get 'better' as 3d printing improves.

I know I'm at risk of sounding like a simpleton, and I'm probably missing something obvious. But surely any gun is ultimately mechanical, ie, there must be a mechanical mechanism within it to propel a bullet at speed. I understand it might be buried within a computer, but it's in there somewhere. 

[Chindie]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I know I'm at risk of sounding like a simpleton, and I'm probably missing something obvious. But surely any gun is ultimately mechanical, ie, there must be a mechanical mechanism within it to propel a bullet at speed. I understand it might be buried within a computer, but it's in there somewhere. 

I knew that was going to be said, serves me right for rushing to respond. I'm recalling this from years ago so may get some details wrong...

The gun didn't have a mechanical mechanism to fire a bullet. You didn't pull a trigger to pull the hammer to ignite the charge on the casing. Instead, pulling the trigger set off an electronic system that electrically sparked the charge to fire the bullet. The ID check thing basically prevented the system working at all.

Ultimately the barrel and the bullet are arguably mechanical, but the process to get to that point was electronic. The trigger was basically a button. The same company marketed a multi barreled gun that literally was just a box full of bullets that could be triggered to fire at obscene speed, to the extent they could make patterns in the style of bullets, which they wanted to sell to the military.

Whether the whole thing ever actually got to market, no idea, but the thing wasn't a difficult concept and should be 'safe' - you couldn't steal it and fire it theoretically.

[HanoiVillan]

Thanks for the explanation, very clear. 

[Rugeley Villa]

2 hours ago, coda said:

So disappointed ISIS lied to us. Just don't know who to trust these days.

I still think they were behind it somehow  

[Rugeley Villa]

Surely no gun laws will change much with a republican government in power. 

[lapal_fan]

22 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Surely no gun laws will change much with a republican government in power. 

Even with Democrats in charge, nothing would change.  

The NRA are so powerful politically, no one can challenge them without losing out on billions of dollars of funding.  And those funds are used to promote.  Take away the funds and you're basically a guy on a street corner trying to become president.  

Americans LOVE pantomime, they like big, brash things - only money buys that unfortunately.  

Things are only likely to get worse too.  

Go on any youtube video about this, look at the comments - you'll soon see people who say "If this is the price of FREEDOM, or LIBERTY, then we have to live with it". 

Like an ISIS follower - you can't reason with these people.  It's ingrained in them to think that if they can't have something, their rights and freedoms are being taken away from them, and they'll fight to get them back.  

It's absolutely absurd and idiotic and retarded and whatever else you can think of to call them, but nothing will change. 

And the people that vote FOR and AGAINST the laws which restrict gun ownership, type etc - all white, 80% of them are male, all over them in their 50s/60s who are likely taking back handers from the gun companies (big money) so they become more influential and look after their families for generations to come.  I honestly wonder what would happen if one of these tragedies were to happen to them or around them - would that make them realise the poison they've backed upon their fellow humans.  

[Dom_Wren]

25 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Even with Democrats in charge, nothing would change.  

The NRA are so powerful politically, no one can challenge them without losing out on billions of dollars of funding.  And those funds are used to promote.  Take away the funds and you're basically a guy on a street corner trying to become president.  

Americans LOVE pantomime, they like big, brash things - only money buys that unfortunately.  

Things are only likely to get worse too.  

Go on any youtube video about this, look at the comments - you'll soon see people who say "If this is the price of FREEDOM, or LIBERTY, then we have to live with it". 

Like an ISIS follower - you can't reason with these people.  It's ingrained in them to think that if they can't have something, their rights and freedoms are being taken away from them, and they'll fight to get them back.  

It's absolutely absurd and idiotic and retarded and whatever else you can think of to call them, but nothing will change. 

And the people that vote FOR and AGAINST the laws which restrict gun ownership, type etc - all white, 80% of them are male, all over them in their 50s/60s who are likely taking back handers from the gun companies (big money) so they become more influential and look after their families for generations to come.  I honestly wonder what would happen if one of these tragedies were to happen to them or around them - would that make them realise the poison they've backed upon their fellow humans.  

@lapal_fan  Genuine question, can you just clarify the bold bit, Who do you think are like an isis follower? Gun owners? NRA members? Americans? Ta!

[bickster]

Guns don’t kill people, accountants do 

[Rugeley Villa]

28 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I honestly wonder what would happen if one of these tragedies were to happen to them or around them - would that make them realise the poison they've backed upon their fellow humans.  

Was only thinking that this morning, maybe if it hit them on their doorstep,they might realise. 

[PieFacE]

15 minutes ago, Dom_Wren said:

@lapal_fan  Genuine question, can you just clarify the bold bit, Who do you think are like an isis follower? Gun owners? NRA members? Americans? Ta!

I'm guessing he means anyone who thinks it's acceptable to buy and own a shitload of guns designed to kill masses of people.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by PieFacE