Life After Death?

[Rugeley Villa]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

Seriously, if I was thought that I was riding on the back of a purple dragon, had seen a ghost or think I'd witnessed something 'paranormal', I'd prefer to trust that my mind was mistaken.

So straight away we are dismissing it regardless. There is always a valid reason, so the skeptics tell us.

[Rugeley Villa]

4 minutes ago, Ikantcpell said:

There is no death, life goes on in a different form, that's what i hope anyway.

That's the spirit old chap, welcome to the cause.

[brommy]

Just now, Rugeley Villa said:

I imagine they would be in their prime as in looks so I would not anticipate them to look like death. Also, I imagine there would be no time like there is no time once you leave the orbit of earth and enter space.

Why would their image to you revert back to being in their prime? Whose version of their physical prime would they take; your opinion of their prime, or their own opinion of their prime? Would they be allowed some licence to alter their image, perhaps so they had lost a bit of weight or had whiter teeth and a healthy tan?

[El Zen]

2 minutes ago, darrenm said:

First part I agree with. 2nd part please explain how you in particular got into your physical presence. What assigned you? Pure randomness? 

Our personality, our 'self', is part of that physical presence. Nothing that needs to be assigned to anything. It's the same collection of stardust. 

[bobzy]

I don't believe in life after death. 

Deja vu is **** weird, though. 

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, brommy said:

Why would their image to you revert back to being in their prime? Whose version of their physical prime would they take; your opinion of their prime, or their own opinion of their prime? Would they be allowed some licence to alter their image, perhaps so they had lost a bit of weight or had whiter teeth and a healthy tan?

I would say it would be there own version. you're asking me things I simply don't know. If I knew then I'd be a rich man. 

[mjmooney]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

 

If you don't believe fine your choice but allow those to believe without making it sound like a kids story.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want. We're allowed to point out that it sounds like a kids' story. 

[NurembergVillan]

Nah, nothing happening once the lights go out.  I reckon it's true that our life flashes before our eyes, so you'd better make sure it's a good watch.

If I was spending my life fearing God and worrying about Heaven or Hell I'd be in constant turmoil.  What's the sin ratio for getting sent up or down?  I've been a bit naughty on occasions, but surely not worthy of the flames of Hades.  But then I've not really been religiously well-behaved enough to think I'm getting past St Peter's velvet rope either.

If I thought there was no Heaven or Hell but there was an afterlife I'd feel hard done by that all the proper wrong 'uns were getting a free hit when I'd been pretty good by comparison.

I know The Streets aren't one of the more popular acts round these parts, but this one track sums up my feelings on it all.  And possibly why they're my feelings too.  I want to go to Heaven for the weather, but Hell for the company.

Quote

I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell for the company
I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell seems like fun to me

There's something in the sun this day, I feel it
Or maybe it's just my hay fever
The weeds are green, the sky is shining
But it'll soon be night which is nicer
But then cracks peel back and hell bends the room
And the devil gestures to you
You've never seen such a Beelzebeing
And he's telling you to make up your bean about what's left of your evening
About whether to flake out or fecking stay out
What do you make of this doubt?
The devil wants to know if you're going down or up
Easy - I know what my speech should be

I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell for the company
I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell seems like fun to me

The devil beams a big beaming grin
The sort which leads you up the streets of sin
He holds up paperwork - sign the line
Let's clash with madmen, grime is fine
It sounds all hectic, you're having cold feet
Things are getting out of hand, you make an embarrassing retreat
Let's ride the Valkyrie, commit a bit of sin
Turn rock to rubble, punch me in the chin
I simply, Lucifer, refuse to wind up on fire with low-life liars
Then you're destined for the world without chores and sweating 
The eternal hell of boredom in heaven

I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell for the company
I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell seems like fun to me

You tell the devil in no uncertain terms
You'll never be evil, you'll never be turned
What is this evil? And who decides this?
When left to devices some humans try shit
This is the reason we should all be tied up?
We're just normal people exploring our minds
We don't go around here putting poison in wine
But we enjoy what we like which is not always right
People are intricate, people aren't swines
Let's screw the rules up and rely on our minds
Sign on the line
You sign on the line
He clutches the wine and tips in the cyanide

I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell for the company
I want to go to heaven for the weather
But hell seems like fun to me

 

[sexbelowsound]

It's an interesting discussion. Personally I don't believe in it but I'm comfortable with others who do (provided they aren't killing for it). It helps some people to cope with life which in turn is comforting to me even though I've made my peace with it.

if there is an afterlife though I want to go to the animal version and be reunited with my fallen homies. Seems far more chilled than a place full of people. 

[brommy]

3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

So straight away we are dismissing it regardless. There is always a valid reason, so the skeptics tell us.

Without any evidence whatsoever, yes. The valid reason for my mistaken belief manifests itself in chemical reactions causing electrical impulses within my brain and can be caused by numerous factors including those that I have previously listed in this thread.

[TrentVilla]

14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So the same as Santa Claus then?

fair enough I get why people sceptical but my point of view is I have faith regardless how silly it might seem to others. Not accusing you of this, but a lot of people for some reason makes them feel more macho belittling those who believe by laughing at others beliefs like heaven which I don't understand. 

If you don't believe fine your choice but allow those to believe without making it sound like a kids story.

Somewhere between Santa and the tooth fairy for me, but that is just my view. Each to their own and all that.

But to be clear, I'm not sceptical. That implies a level of doubt that just doesn't exist in my mind.

On the last point, I respect peoples right to hold whatever belief they want but I don't have to respect those beliefs. I don't have respect for religion, I do think its a fairy tale and I'm not going to apologise for that. But religion is pushed onto me and my life on a daily basis, there is little respect for the beliefs of those who don't believe in a God by those who do yet they expect and even demand respect of their views.

Its hypocrisy, now I'm not accusing you of that, that is a comment about this debate beyond just the confines of this thread or VT.

Why should the belief in something be more valid, important or justified than the belief that something doesn't exist. There is no more or less reason for a non believer to respect the views of a believer than vice versa.

 

[tonyh29]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't believe in life after death. 

Deja vu is **** weird, though. 

I knew you were going to say that 

[brommy]

2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I would say it would be there own version. you're asking me things I simply don't know. If I knew then I'd be a rich man. 

You seem to believe some things you don't know and be unsure about other things you don't know.

[Rugeley Villa]

2 minutes ago, brommy said:

Without any evidence whatsoever, yes. The valid reason for my mistaken belief manifests itself in chemical reactions causing electrical impulses within my brain and can be caused by numerous factors including those that I have previously listed in this thread.

I can see you're a rational person 

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

Nah, nothing happening once the lights go out.  I reckon it's true that our life flashes before our eyes, so you'd better make sure it's a good watch.

If I was spending my life fearing God and worrying about Heaven or Hell I'd be in constant turmoil.  What's the sin ratio for getting sent up or down?  I've been a bit naughty on occasions, but surely not worthy of the flames of Hades.  But then I've not really been religiously well-behaved enough to think I'm getting past St Peter's velvet rope either.

If I thought there was no Heaven or Hell but there was an afterlife I'd feel hard done by that all the proper wrong 'uns were getting a free hit when I'd been pretty good by comparison.

I know The Streets aren't one of the more popular acts round these parts, but this one track sums up my feelings on it all.  And possibly why they're my feelings too.  I want to go to Heaven for the weather, but Hell for the company.

 

To quote someone cleverer than I'll ever be

It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

So if god, jesus etc nwver existed. Who wrote the bible? Did someome just make up all these as stories?

[Rugeley Villa]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

You seem to believe some things you don't know and be unsure about other things you don't know.

Of course. First and solely it's a belief system, the proof will come when I die, but I may never get that proof.

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Can i ask have you always felt this way? Have you ever believed honestly?

I have a few friends that believed went church and were religious then just one day they just decided they didnt believe anymore. No incident like death or anything like that. Im just wondering how you can go from there to now?

I never believed. I didn't have a religious upbringing at all, we only went to church for the usual life event things for other people, to the extent I genuinely can count the number of times I've been in a church on the fingers of one hand. But I had the usual primary school upbringing of biblical morality stories and hymns and I knew a lot about the Bible. But I never believed it, and to this day I can consciously recall the moment where I was at primary school and went from not just not believing it to actively knowing it is horseshit.

And then a few years later my nan died and the vicar actively infuriated me with his talk of 'she's in a better place now' crap. Having watched both my parents die since, I dearly wish they were. But they aren't. 

[brommy]

5 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Of course. First and solely it's a belief system, the proof will come when I die, but I may never get that proof.

What differentiates the things you don't know about but choose to believe, against the things you don't know about but choose not to believe or remain unsure about?

[El Zen]

19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So the same as Santa Claus then?

fair enough I get why people sceptical but my point of view is I have faith regardless how silly it might seem to others. Not accusing you of this, but a lot of people for some reason makes them feel more macho belittling those who believe by laughing at others beliefs like heaven which I don't understand. 

If you don't believe fine your choice but allow those to believe without making it sound like a kids story.

This has always puzzled me, and it's not necessarily directed at you but a general observation. If your faith is important enough to you to be offended by mockery, then surely your faith must be quite strong. And if your faith is so strong, why would you care what a silly atheist has to say about it?