peterms Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just now, snowychap said: Well, there was no point getting in to a flap about it. There we go. It's curtains for this thread. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, peterms said: There we go. It's curtains for this thread. Ahem. This was intentional I'll fill you in. She's the leader of the Scottish Labia Party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Walking in fields of wheat I assume? Wheat, lots of wheat, fields of wheat; a tremendous amount of wheat - Oh Philip, Philip, I am going to call an Election! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Walking in fields of wheat I assume? She's a cereal offender, which made me give a Rye smile when I think of all her corny lines about law and order. I'm all ears to hear what her next crop of barley believable bonkers acts will be. I hope she reaps what she sows. There's more than a grain of truth in the idea that she's an arable woman. quinoa. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Seat68 said: "dont look here, look over there instead". The Classic Tory "Switch-a-Roo", we can talk to alleged terrorists but nobody else can type thing. I think most of the public have worked that out now, what with them paying what is actually a ransom. Do 1,2,3 and give me 1 Billion pounds in cash or we won't release the votes you want. In many ways a phrase like "We don't negotiate with terrorists" is quite unique within the English language, you can be so loose and free with it & what you think it means is not what it means at all. I thought I could understand English at a very basic level, the Tories showed me up there and no mistake. Edited June 27, 2017 by Amsterdam_Neil_D Deleted loads of space below for tidiness reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: The Classic Tory "Switch-a-Roo", we can talk to alleged terrorists but nobody else can type thing. I think most of the public have worked that out now Unfortunately not - a whole bunch of them voted Conservative yet again this time round. It makes you despair, really. How shit does a Prime Minister need to be for the public not to vote for them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: Wheat, lots of wheat, fields of wheat; a tremendous amount of wheat - Oh Philip, Philip, is that an election or are you just pleased to see me? Improved for you 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 42 minutes ago, bobzy said: Unfortunately not - a whole bunch of them voted Conservative yet again this time round. It makes you despair, really. How shit does a Prime Minister need to be for the public not to vote for them? I think a large part won't next time, the realities that the Tories campaigning and rule by are IMO slowly disintegrating around them. The voting public is now more fluid in voting patterns and how the Tories behave is totally the opposite to public mood. The terrorism and fire showed the public to be a caring and generally OK bunch to be honest but the disasters themselves are not caused by these people, far from it. In my eyes, all of this shows the Tories to be so out of touch that it is comical with blood on it's hands for many a thing recently. Basically I think the Me,Me,Me culture is dying out and is been replaced by something a lot more wholesome for the population. Who pays for what and how, does it really matter anymore in the big scheme of things if it's for education / housing / opportunities in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I think a large part won't next time, the realities that the Tories campaigning and rule by are IMO slowly disintegrating around them. The voting public is now more fluid in voting patterns and how the Tories behave is totally the opposite to public mood. The terrorism and fire showed the public to be a caring and generally OK bunch to be honest but the disasters themselves are not caused by these people, far from it. In my eyes, all of this shows the Tories to be so out of touch that it is comical with blood on it's hands for many a thing recently. Basically I think the Me,Me,Me culture is dying out and is been replaced by something a lot more wholesome for the population. Who pays for what and how, does it really matter anymore in the big scheme of things if it's for education / housing / opportunities in general? Tory voters will keep voting Tory. And there's quite a few of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 Politics is as tribal as football support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Chindie said: Tory voters will keep voting Tory. And there's quite a few of them. I think you might be wrong so let's see, we won't need to wait too long anyway It's just down to momentum, damage caused and subject span (Stay wit hme Gold leader). The momentum i clearly with Corbyn and there is not enough time for the Tories to do anything about it. Currently they are increasing the momentum by the day with their slimy and snide deals to grasp and clamour for power at anyone or anythings cost. Damage, the kids and the young vote effectivley organised the torpedoing of the good ship "Tory" multiple times, whilst all getting a live strem via the periscope camera(or election results if you want to be picky). If I was them I would want to do it again, get more organised and hurt them more, wouldn't you ? Especially as the ship is listing badley and it has seemingly got a robot for a captain. Subject's for All. If my theory that the Me, me, me thing is dying out and that young or old, someone you know or care about will need help with either housing, education, food, heat, travel (eg train) or good free healthcare could change their vote IMO. This must have happened to some extent or they would have got a massive majority, add momentum and damage and they are ******. It's a formulae in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 Corbyn won't/doesn't appeal (to say the least) to many Tory heartlands. Look at the results this time. A great campaign versus a truly dreadful one, and the dreadful one still nearly had a majority. Momentum or not there's hundreds of seats that will not support Labour. Me me me is sadly alive and well and forever will be. Tories will remain Tories, and their seats will vote for whichever word removed is wearing the blue ribbon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Chindie said: Corbyn won't/doesn't appeal (to say the least) to many Tory heartlands. Look at the results this time. A great campaign versus a truly dreadful one, and the dreadful one still nearly had a majority. Momentum or not there's hundreds of seats that will not support Labour. Me me me is sadly alive and well and forever will be. Tories will remain Tories, and their seats will vote for whichever word removed is wearing the blue ribbon. I agree to an extent. But there's around 100 seats that are now very marginal and the polls put Labour a good 5 points ahead. There are lots of Tories and some Labour who have doubled down in their hatred of Corbyn, becoming even more entrenched in their view because it's been challenged. But there's also quite a few who are able to change view. The Tory voters are literally dying off so it's only the working class and lower educated which Labour now has to win back. These are people who will read right wing propaganda more so the falling distribution of these papers in combination with the penetration of social media should help that. Hardly anywhere swung right. Even my Toryville backyard with Javid against a token young Labour candidate swung left. Right now I'd say it'd be a Labour landslide. The longer May and the Tories can stay in power the more opportunity they have to repair the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, DK82 said: Do... you understand what a manifesto is? Also, I know the conservatives had one, didn't have one, changed it, didn't cost it, deleted it and then found the money tree to pay the DUP after the deletion, but you must know what a manifesto does? I still remember Cameron 'bribing' the country with the EU referendum and **** up the country, something May has been happy to continue with. No that was Bliar and Brown, Mays continuing it Edited June 27, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: The longer May and the Tories can stay in power the more opportunity they have to repair the damage. Or worsen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: I agree to an extent. But there's around 100 seats that are now very marginal and the polls put Labour a good 5 points ahead. There are lots of Tories and some Labour who have doubled down in their hatred of Corbyn, becoming even more entrenched in their view because it's been challenged. But there's also quite a few who are able to change view. The Tory voters are literally dying off so it's only the working class and lower educated which Labour now has to win back. These are people who will read right wing propaganda more so the falling distribution of these papers in combination with the penetration of social media should help that. Hardly anywhere swung right. Even my Toryville backyard with Javid against a token young Labour candidate swung left. Right now I'd say it'd be a Labour landslide. The longer May and the Tories can stay in power the more opportunity they have to repair the damage. It appears that the extent to which you agree is actually 'not at all' The Tory vote isn't some genetic condition only the older generation had. They might be dying off but that support doesn't magically die with them. There will be others changing their views as they grow older - a phenomenon well established that the vote goes right with age generally. I think Labour might make gains next time round, but a landslide? Nope. We're in a time of division. It's coalitions for the future. Perhaps even if (when) Brexit becomes a disaster, because Labour aren't trusted with it and vast swathes of the country still supports and/or doesn't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, Chindie said: Corbyn won't/doesn't appeal (to say the least) to many Tory heartlands. Look at the results this time. A great campaign versus a truly dreadful one, and the dreadful one still nearly had a majority. Momentum or not there's hundreds of seats that will not support Labour. Me me me is sadly alive and well and forever will be. Tories will remain Tories, and their seats will vote for whichever word removed is wearing the blue ribbon. Hmm there are a lot of labour voters who vote for themselves too and their families though. Cant just say its conservative voters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'm not saying selfishness is uniquely Tory. It's human. Nothing is truly altruistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Chindie said: It appears that the extent to which you agree is actually 'not at all' The Tory vote isn't some genetic condition only the older generation had. They might be dying off but that support doesn't magically die with them. There will be others changing their views as they grow older - a phenomenon well established that the vote goes right with age generally. I think Labour might make gains next time round, but a landslide? Nope. We're in a time of division. It's coalitions for the future. Perhaps even if (when) Brexit becomes a disaster, because Labour aren't trusted with it and vast swathes of the country still supports and/or doesn't get it. Nope, like I said, I agree to an extent "Corbyn won't/doesn't appeal (to say the least) to many Tory heartlands" - agree mostly "A great campaign versus a truly dreadful one, and the dreadful one still nearly had a majority" - agree "Me me me is sadly alive and well and forever will be." - agree mostly So certainly not "not at all", I just think there's more to it than you've reasoned. The Tory vote *is* dying off http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/conservative-voters-dying-off-lord-michael-heseltine-tory-part-elderly-support-base-pensioners-a7798386.html Quote "2 per cent of the older part of the electorate die every year - they are 70 per cent Conservative,” Lord Heseltine told Sky News. ”Another 2 per cent come in at the young end of the electorate - they are about 70 per cent Labour. That's about 2 per cent change each year. There isn't that much time.“ We discussed the moving right thing recently on this thread without any consensus. I say that older people are currently right leaning in general because for most of their lives they've lived through right governments. So there's no way to tell if these people were always right or turned that way as they got older. In fact this would seem to agree with my reasoning: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/03/do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-young-old-politics Quote There are two main possibilities. The first is that, as the quote above suggests, people become more likely to vote Conservative as they get older. This could be because the ageing process makes people more conservative (with a small c), or because older people have different lifestyles, and therefore different priorities when voting. It is also partially due to the fact that younger generations have been brought up in a more socially liberal world. When my parents first voted in the 1960s, homosexuality was illegal, abortion was largely illegal, the death penalty was still in force and openly racist attitudes were widely acceptable. Now, when my students voted this year for the first time, the death penalty is a distant memory, abortion rights are firmly entrenched, gay marriage is legal and accusing someone of racism is regarded as the ultimate end-of-argument put down. This process of generational replacement could be very important, because it implies that rightwing parties are fighting against the tide of history. On this argument, the Conservative electorate is effectively dying out Edited June 27, 2017 by darrenm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 18 minutes ago, Chindie said: I think Labour might make gains next time round, but a landslide? Nope. We're in a time of division. It's coalitions for the future. Perhaps even if (when) Brexit becomes a disaster, because Labour aren't trusted with it and vast swathes of the country still supports and/or doesn't get it. To be fair, it doesn't need to be a landslide for it not to be a coalition. Labour gaining circa 60 seats is not beyond the realms of the imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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