Awol Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Corbyn has nothing more than a couple of A-Levels. He got two 'E's. Must have dropped them before writing this manifesto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Why do people hold Labour parties to such higher standards? Labour produce a fully costed manifesto with plenty of good ideas, in theory, and they get pulled apart for it, including by those on their side. The Tories produce an uncosted manifesto, u-turn multiple times and their core vote will still vote for them. To coin a phrase used in the States, Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Same thing here with Labour/Tories. I struggle to understand how you can fully cost anything when you don't know how Brexit will go, especially with the degree of giveaways they promised and you are basically taxing businesses four times over with corporation tax, a big hike in the minimum wage, increasing many owners' income tax and scrapping zero hours. I assume it's a large part of why those who don't follow the ideology behind Corbyn and co won't vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Why do people hold Labour parties to such higher standards? Labour produce a fully costed manifesto with plenty of good ideas, in theory, and they get pulled apart for it, including by those on their side. The Tories produce an uncosted manifesto, u-turn multiple times and their core vote will still vote for them. To coin a phrase used in the States, Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Same thing here with Labour/Tories. People still vote Conservative because Labour governments are complete disasters whenever they happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, sharkyvilla said: taxing businesses four times over with corporation tax, Still lower than most of mainland Europe and the same level as under the Tories previously. 1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said: a big hike in the minimum wage, I don't understand why this is such a sticking point for people. Economies aren't static, they're fluid. People earn more, they have more to spend. And Corbyn has already stated over and over that smaller businesses will be supported. I see both of these policies as aimed at big business. 2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: increasing many owners' income tax Increasing income tax of the highest earners. They can afford it to pay fr our badly underfunded public services. 2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: and scrapping zero hours. Zero hours work for some, but exploit far more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I struggle to understand how you can fully cost anything when you don't know how Brexit will go, especially with the degree of giveaways they promised and you are basically taxing businesses four times over with corporation tax, a big hike in the minimum wage, increasing many owners' income tax and scrapping zero hours. I assume it's a large part of why those who don't follow the ideology behind Corbyn and co won't vote for him. Labour have never been able to cost anything which is why they end up borrowing so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, Chindie said: Would you rather not go for the option that at least wants to try? I don't care how you vote, and I don't like/care about everything on that list. But I look and think, at least that us trying to make things better. The Tories? They won't even think of it. And they're being given an unprecedented opportunity to reshape the country in their image with the 'Great Repeal Bill'. And they want a no deal Brexit. And all the other shit. And people queue up to vote for them. The thing is its not trying for me. I personally think this manfiesto is full of false promises and lies that wont ever happen. Conservatives (well we all know what they are about under May) I get your poin t though and see why you believe that, but I think your in for some disappointment unfortuantely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, KHV said: People still vote Conservative because Labour governments are complete disasters whenever they happen Yet Conservative govenments are the model of competency right? Philip 'where's my 20 billion gone' Hammond? Theresa 'Strong and Stable and Strong and Stable' May? Boris 'failed leadership coup' Johnson? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Nobody can ever tell me why the Conservatives are the party to lead this country. Only that 'Labour are worse'. Politics of pure negativity aren't the way to leader, I'm sorry but they're not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, jon_c said: Depends on what you mean by free parking? I was driving my brother-in-law to the hospital for treatment recently and as a patient you get a card to put in the car each day to park for free. Which I'm totally fine with. Visitors still have to pay though. How else do you stop people abusing the free parking? They used to do this at my local hospital, people who worked in town would park there free all day, and no patients could ever get a space. Well that sounds like a decent hospital because up here if your a patient you still have to pay, you get 20 mins free thats all. Its pretty easy all you have to do is when you send the appointment letter out, have the date, time and appointment location on a slip of the letter you cut out and can stick on your dashboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The thing is its not trying for me. I personally think this manfiesto is full of false promises and lies that wont ever happen. Conservatives (well we all know what they are about under May) I get your poin t though and see why you believe that, but I think your in for some disappointment unfortuantely I won't be disappointed because I've said all along it's going to be a Tory landslide. I was disappointed before it started. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Nobody can ever tell me why the Conservatives are the party to lead this country. Only that 'Labour are worse'. Politics of pure negativity aren't the way to leader, I'm sorry but they're not. Sadly mate you're fighting against the establishment. Thats always hard, basically you are taking on the rich and powerful. It isn't fair - but thats what you're up against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Chindie said: I won't be disappointed because I've said all along it's going to be a Tory landslide. I was disappointed before it started. I dunno mate I think its going to be alot closer than people think. Be very suprised if May wins with a landslide with her her pathetic campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Awol said: Or rather who won't take things backwards 40 yrs to industrial chaos, 3 day weeks, and winters of discontent. I do wonder if some of the younger Corbyn fans have looked into what happened to the UK the last time his ideology was in the ascendency. I remember those days. We actually had Industries then, before Thatcher butchered them on the altar of monetarism.The 3 day week was under a Tory Govt. People had the guts and determination to fight back in those days. We were a better country then, had a better sense of community and looking after each other. There's a poison that the Tories fed into the British people's beliefs. If Corbyn is the beginning of the fight back, then bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 like this little tale:- Jeremy Corbyn, finally arrived, to whoops of great delight, and as he spelled out how "the choice facing the country could not clearer” a nine-year-old boy bellowed, "VOTE LABOUR!" "That was, actually the conclusion I was leading to," Corbyn told him. "If you'll just let me take a bit more time to get there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rjenkins Posted June 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2017 I don't tend to get involved with 'politics' threads on VT, although generally the standard of discussion is a lot higher than on other forums or Twitter, for example. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts. Ahead of voting today, I've been going back over the campaign in my head and struggling to find a reason to vote for any of the candidates/parties. Maybe it's nostalgia, but when I look at the Tory cabinet / Labour shadow-cabinet, I just don't see a great deal of talent and charisma. I don't get the sense that anyone has the capability or momentum to make a positive difference, especially compared with previous elections. No-one is winning me over enough to have faith in them. Based on the manifestos I would be inclined to vote Labour, but I think Jeremy Corbyn attracts and repels support in equal measure, and I'm not sure how competent he really is. I read Stefan's post above about holding Labour parties to higher standards, and I do agree to an extent. I think left-wing parties do have more to overcome in our society due to the way our media operates amongst many other factors, but I don't read The Sun or Daily Mail, and I still don't find Corbyn to be a particularly impressive leader. It's not all just a witch-hunt. On the other hand, I think Theresa May's honeymoon period in office is well and truly over after a really cynical campaign, and I worry about the consequences of having her in power backed by a huge majority in Parliament. Even after their manifesto I still don't feel like I know what they'll do in office (except that it's bad news for foxes). It just feels like whatever they do, much of it will be bad for a lot of people or they wouldn't be so vague and non-committal (and I know that's terrible reasoning). The FPTP system makes it harder too, although I do see more variety in the posters and placards around than I used to. In 2015 I voted Labour because I was worried about the UKIP vote locally, and I'll probably do the same again to counteract wherever that vote migrates to this time around. It's hardly stirring stuff though. I expect a Tory majority of around 90. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Still lower than most of mainland Europe and the same level as under the Tories previously. I don't understand why this is such a sticking point for people. Economies aren't static, they're fluid. People earn more, they have more to spend. And Corbyn has already stated over and over that smaller businesses will be supported. I see both of these policies as aimed at big business. Increasing income tax of the highest earners. They can afford it to pay fr our badly underfunded public services. Zero hours work for some, but exploit far more. But all four at the same time when we don't know the outcome of Brexit negotiations? That is very risky and as so much of their spending plans rely on it, I can see why lots of people are skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 day week, power cuts during the day and night, strikes. I had my first job as a 16 year old for an insurance company I remember using oil lamps I just wonder how people would cope nowadays with no internet, no tv, candlelight. guess we would have a population explosion like last time. Villa were better though! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, PaulC said: 3 day week, power cuts during the day and night, strikes. I had my first job as a 16 year old for an insurance company I remember using oil lamps I just wonder how people would cope nowadays with no internet, no tv, candlelight. guess we would have a population explosion like last time. Villa were better though! 3 day week was under heaths conservatives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, hippo said: 3 day week was under heaths conservatives. that was because of the miners strike wasn't it. I'm not questioning which party was in. Think Thatcher took revenge on the miners when she got in with shutting down all the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: But all four at the same time when we don't know the outcome of Brexit negotiations? That is very risky and as so much of their spending plans rely on it, I can see why lots of people are skeptical. Theresa lots we don't know. There could be a war in middle east sending oil prices surging, The US economy could falter which usually affects us. I think we do know that the brexit trading terms won't be as good as we have now. But basically we can't put plans on hold for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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