Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[peterw]

20 hours ago, blandy said:

Without veering back into an off topic India discussion, looking at the responses to Russia's war on Ukraine from the perspective of different nations and alliances, maybe we need to understand why the responses are what they are. It seems to me that India's response to Russia is in line with their recent trajectory. I mean India was a very much third world country but (as with their cricket team) a decade or more ago, they decided "enough of being looked down on and patted on the head, we're going to assert ourselves, flex our considerable assets (pfk) and aggressively look after India's needs and aims on the world stage" - And that's what they've been doing with a great deal of success, in cricket and in general.

So with Russia, there's a situation there to profit from cheap oil and either use that to feed their industry, and/or to sell it on as a broker and make a ton of money for the benefit of India.

That ties very much with not wanting to alow China to assert itself as the hegemon in the area. That becomes particularly pertinent with China's belt and road initiatives in pakistan, and if there's something India do not want is an aggressive China (remembering they (CHN & IND) both have border conflicts) and and aggrssive China to the north (east) and alongside it kashmir/Pakistan border. being part of BRICS also allowed them to try and assert itself on the world stage as an economic powerhouse first across Asia but beyond. India is no friend of China and the Russia war is a distraction to them remeber that they were unaligined throughout the Cold |War (depsite what you'd think were Soviet leanings), and want to portray themselves as such now. There is no point in trying to compete with China if they deny themselves cheap imports of gas from Russia (also they have large wepaons contacts with Russia that they want honouring).

India is in a tricky place in wanting to place itself against China, which means Russia, but also needing what it gets from Russia.

[magnkarl]

Still not going well for Scholz I see.

In other news Russia's just hit another apartment block in Odessa, killing at least 10. They're now using missiles from the 60's, meaning that they might as well throw rocks at the Ukrainians, they'd be more accurate.

Edited July 1, 2022 by magnkarl

[sne]

This will sting for Moscow

Quote

Ukrainian soup ends up on the World Heritage List for Russian protests

UNESCO lists the Ukrainian soup borscht on the World Heritage List. The decision meets with cheers in Kyiv, while Russia protests and says the soup is Russian.

On Friday, the UN cultural organization entered the culture of preparing borscht soup in Ukraine on the list of endangered cultural heritage - something that has been encouraged by Kyiv, but strongly opposed by Russia.

- The victory in the Borscht war is ours, said Ukraine's Minister of Culture Oleksandr Tkachenko on Telegram, adding that Ukraine will also win the "second war", referring to the Russian invasion.

https://direkte.vg.no/nyhetsdognet/news/ukrainsk-suppe-havner-paa-verdensarvlisten-til-russiske-protester.p3QzSlGX9?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=direktewidget&utm_medium=direktewidget_nyhetsdognet

[magnkarl]

Big news today as the US has bought two or three NASAM systems from Norway to be delivered to Ukraine. These are the systems deployed around the White House and pentagon, considered the best anti missile and air system in the world. These should stop the indiscriminate bombing of at least 3 Ukrainian cities. 

These are the exact kind of systems everyone should be delivering to Ukraine as they’re the definition of weapons that will save civilians.

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[PussEKatt]

Are the Russians actually killing any Ukraine soldiers ?

Every time I watch the war on the news,the Russians have destroyed another"civilian"apartment/building.Is this war the Russian version of the "Final Solution" ?

[magnkarl]

17 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Are the Russians actually killing any Ukraine soldiers ?

Every time I watch the war on the news,the Russians have destroyed another"civilian"apartment/building.Is this war the Russian version of the "Final Solution" ?

I'm sure Ukraine are losing a lot of troops. The bombing of civilian infrastructure is purely petulance from Russia, it usually follows an international development. The mall was bombed as G7 were meeting, Odessa was bombed as Ukraine was accepted as an EU candidate and so forth.

Operationally this does absolutely nothing for Russia. They're indiscriminate acts of war crimes. They'll likely get worse once Russia's army is fought to a standstill in the East within the coming month. As the war has gone on the missiles being lobbed at Ukrainian cities have gotten older and older, they're now sending systems that were made in the 60's which have a huge chance of hitting anything but the target. Not that targeting seems to be the issue for Russia anyway, they don't give a hoot if they hit a hospital, school or military base.

The question is how long Ukraine are willing to let Russia use Belarus as a launch pad for missiles that kill civilians at such high rates. At some point Ukraine will have the capability to take Belarus out of the war, and I'm not sure Belarus' military would even oppose Ukraine getting rid of their dictator.

[magnkarl]

Macron and Scholz are in HOT water after someone's leaked the conversations between Putin and Macron just before the invasion. Putin continually refers to the fact that Scholz and Macron have promised him that Zelensky will cave and let him have whatever he wants. If this doesn't have serious consequences for Macron and Scholz I don't know what will.

It appears Chomsky's view was much more common at the start of this war than we thought.

Here's a good read from the Ukrainian perspective:

Quote

Open Letter to Noam Chomsky (and Other Like-Minded Intellectuals) on the Russia-Ukraine War

Pattern #1: Denying Ukraine’s sovereign integrity

Pattern #2: Treating Ukraine as an American pawn on a geo-political chessboard

Pattern #3. Suggesting that Russia was threatened by NATO

Pattern #4. Stating that the US isn’t any better than Russia

Pattern #5. Whitewashing Putin’s goals for invading Ukraine

Pattern #6. Assuming that Putin is interested in a diplomatic solution

Pattern #7. Advocating that yielding to Russian demands is the way to avert the nuclear war

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by magnkarl

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Macron and Scholz are in HOT water after someone's leaked the conversations between Putin and Macron just before the invasion. Putin continually refers to the fact that Scholz and Macron have promised him that Zelensky will cave and let him have whatever he wants. If this doesn't have serious consequences for Macron and Scholz I don't know what will.

 

It's not a leak as such, a journalist was making a documentary and given "unprecidented access." Oops

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

It's not a leak as such, a journalist was making a documentary and given "unprecidented access." Oops

I find it fascinating how dumb Putin sounds, he's not at all the 'mastermind' that Russians claim him to be when you listen to his way of talking. Very informal, whiny, full of stuttering and petulance. 

[Genie]

So further confirms what we expected, Putin never really planned or expected to go into battle. Tens of thousands dead on both sides because he didn’t want to lose face by retreating his tanks from the border when Ukraine held firm.

He’s secured his place in history as an evil dictator though. 

[LondonLax]

4 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Macron and Scholz are in HOT water after someone's leaked the conversations between Putin and Macron just before the invasion. Putin continually refers to the fact that Scholz and Macron have promised him that Zelensky will cave and let him have whatever he wants. If this doesn't have serious consequences for Macron and Scholz I don't know what will.

 

I didn’t hear that from that recording. Is there more?

[Rolta]

6 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Macron and Scholz are in HOT water after someone's leaked the conversations between Putin and Macron just before the invasion. Putin continually refers to the fact that Scholz and Macron have promised him that Zelensky will cave and let him have whatever he wants. If this doesn't have serious consequences for Macron and Scholz I don't know what will.

It was an interesting watch but it didn't reveal any of what you said. Macron comes across as trying to open dialogues and to de-escalate things.

[avfc1982am]

I got the impression Putin was trying to imply something that an agreement was in place and Macron shot down him down straight away. I actually thought Putin came across as a clearing in the woods, trying to make out that the Ukraine Government should in some way have bowed down to the demands of a separatist party in a Ukrainian region. Like Russia would as a sovereign nation. Macron's rebuttle was spot on imo. Putin just hears what he wants too. 

[bickster]

Well worth a read of the whole thing for the current state of play on the frontline from a Russia perspective. Igor Girkin is a suspected war criminal (Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines 17) and was de facto military commander of the  separatist forces of the occupied Ukrainian territories. Former Russian soldier and FSB. Though he is highly critical of Shiogu the defence minister

[LondonLax]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Well worth a read of the whole thing for the current state of play on the frontline from a Russia perspective. Igor Girkin is a suspected war criminal (Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines 17) and was de facto military commander of the  separatist forces of the occupied Ukrainian territories. Former Russian soldier and FSB. Though he is highly critical of Shiogu the defence minister

You also have to read it in the context of a separatist leader calling for full mobilisation in Russia to support them. 

[Davkaus]

7 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Macron and Scholz are in HOT water 

 

How long have you been WRITING headlines FOR tabloids?  

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

You also have to read it in the context of a separatist leader calling for full mobilisation in Russia to support them. 

He's not a leader of anything (apart from his own newish Russian National Party), he is at odds with Putin. Ironically, he's also an out an out Nazi. He believes in uniting the old USSR into one country again and is critical of Putin. I agree he is calling for a general mobilization  and it should be viewed through that lens but I do think it's an interesting take from the other side of the front line all the same

[ender4]

So with Russia having taken Luhansk, they must be pretty close to fully taking that whole region?  

Is the Ukranian defence slowly being eroded to the point that they can't defend or counter-attack anymore?

 

[avfc1982am]

In fairness the Donbas is and has been a frigging mess for years. I watch a doc probably a couple of years ago about a sniper from Serbia fighting with the separatists in the Donbas, although a very tormented individual from his history in Bosnia. I suppose the civilians caught in the crossfire from both sides have different takes on right and wrong but the fact is it's Ukrainian land, not Russian.