peterw Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Do some research on Hindu nationalism and what it has meant for minorities in the country over the last few years. Can do better than that - I live in India. Hindu nationalism is powerful and overbearing in many areas (not in the South) but I'm not sure the govt is comparable to those mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 1 minute ago, peterw said: Can do better than that - I live in India. Hindu nationalism is powerful and overbearing in many areas (not in the South) but I'm not sure the govt is comparable to those mentioned. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. All I know is I have heard plenty that fits the definition of reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 2 hours ago, peterw said: India's government is reprehensible? Given they are one of our most 'important' partners that were freely and democratically elected (in the world's largest democracy) I'm not sure how they can be descirbed as reprehensible? Can't governments and presidents be freely and democratically elected but nevertheless act reprehensibly? I mean Trump, Bolsonaro, the UK government, all freely and democratically electetd. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. All I know is I have heard plenty that fits the definition of reprehensible. hearing isn't quite the same as living in it though. The government does a lot wrong and plays to its base (as most govts do) but in general are popular at home. Its not easy running a country of a billion people and having a free and fair electoral system. As I said the BJP aren't that popular down south compared to up north and so they play the Hindu card a lot admittedly. That said, I still find if difficult to find their actions similar to Russia for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Just now, sparrow1988 said: Can't governments and presidents be freely and democratically elected but nevertheless act reprehensibly? I mean Trump, Bolsonaro, the UK government, all freely and democratically electetd. of course. but I still haven't seen an example of how the Indian govt has acted reprenhensibly and how that's comparavble to anything Putin is doing. Anything Trump did around jan 6th 2020 etc As i said - living in the country there may be some levels of disatissfaction but nothing to say Modi is reprehensible or comparable to someone who is also being called a war criminal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 15 hours ago, bickster said: Don't forget that the G20 includes some fairly reprehensible Govt. Saudi, China, Brazil, India There will be an anti-Russia majority but nowhere near complete consensus And absolutely nothing will happen to Putin there either. No world leader would sanction it because they could be next It will be interesting to see of the countries have changed their stance since that vote at the UN after the start of the war. Of the G20 countries, India, China and South Africa absstained. All the others voted to condemn Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, peterw said: hearing isn't quite the same as living in it though. The government does a lot wrong and plays to its base (as most govts do) but in general are popular at home. Its not easy running a country of a billion people and having a free and fair electoral system. As I said the BJP aren't that popular down south compared to up north and so they play the Hindu card a lot admittedly. That said, I still find if difficult to find their actions similar to Russia for example. No, of course. I don't have the time, means or inclination to live in each to form my own first hand opinion though! I can only listen to those with that experience, like yourself. Most of my negative views come from a lovely lady I used to work with. To be fair it mostly sounded like local governments, albeit those of or linked with Modi's party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: No, of course. I don't have the time, means or inclination to live in each to form my own first hand opinion though! I can only listen to those with that experience, like yourself. Most of my negative views come from a lovely lady I used to work with. To be fair it mostly sounded like local governments, albeit those of or linked with Modi's party. That's the other thing - India is governed in a kind of Federal system so although Modi is the leader of the BJP each state has an amount of autonomy to run things as they see fit. for instance I travelled from delhi to Amritsar last week and the Punjab still has more strict covid guidelines with testing needed for some unvaccinated people; Delhi however does not require it. I know that's on a different scale to foreign policy but just an instance of how something seen on the news in th UK may be a reaction to a federal decision rather than one taken by Modi. Edited June 28, 2022 by peterw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2022 Please could we return to the Russia / it's invasion of Ukraine theme of this thread. India is a fascinating subject, but please create or use another thread for that. Cheers Villans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 My son is in Turkey for a week with the kids, and there’s a lot of Russians there and apparently quite the distain for Russians by both the locals, other tourists and even street vendors. Hotels are draped and yellow and blue and certain places have a Russian flag with a cross over it at the entrance. Do Russian tourists realise what’s going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, magnkarl said: My son is in Turkey for a week with the kids, and there’s a lot of Russians there and apparently quite the distain for Russians by both the locals, other tourists and even street vendors. Hotels are draped and yellow and blue and certain places have a Russian flag with a cross over it at the entrance. Do Russian tourists realise what’s going on? I don't see your average Russian tourist as in any way responsible for Russia's actions. Most of them probably just want a quiet life - watching kids and gran kids grow up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 37 minutes ago, magnkarl said: My son is in Turkey for a week with the kids, and there’s a lot of Russians there and apparently quite the distain for Russians by both the locals, other tourists and even street vendors. Hotels are draped and yellow and blue and certain places have a Russian flag with a cross over it at the entrance. Do Russian tourists realise what’s going on? Turkey is generally full of Ukrainians too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Turkey is generally full of Ukrainians too. They should settle this war with a traveller style dust up. Winner takes all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Turkey is generally full of Ukrainians too. Doesn’t martial law ban them from going abroad? The hotel where my son is at is one of the hotels that have taken a stand with the Russian channels being banned from their tv’s, cnn and bbc being one and two on the channels lists and a general acceptance that Russia won’t change unless the people change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2022 1 hour ago, hippo said: I don't see your average Russian tourist as in any way responsible for Russia's actions. Your average Russian tourist is not your average Russian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Russian tourists are heading for Turkey and Mexico. They aren't heading for places like Italy, Spain or the Canary Islands because the ban on Russian planes entering their airspace. It would mean getting connecting flights via a third country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Because at times like this the military is always doing something significant somewhere else. Possibly, though I think in the context of Russia/Ukraine your (throwaway, I guess) comment about F22 Raptors with their transponder "off" (they don't turn them off, they just turn mode S off if they don't want to be picked up on Flight Radar or whatever websites, or Civil SSR) seems a bit specific. Fwiw, I would guess that NATO nation's aircraft would want to be visible to the Russians in a "look, we're here and we're watching and we're ready" type of way. Plus there's airspace deconfliction with all the other traffic in the area, whether that be in the location of the F35, or elsewhere around the area of Ukraine. Finally, any aircraft has to have mode S on in controlled airspace. (edit, actually it might still be mode 3/A and C on, but most aircraft will be mode S equipped now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, blandy said: Possibly, though I think in the context of Russia/Ukraine your (throwaway, I guess) comment about F22 Raptors with their transponder "off" (they don't turn them off, they just turn mode S off if they don't want to be picked up on Flight Radar or whatever websites, or Civil SSR) seems a bit specific. Fwiw, I would guess that NATO nation's aircraft would want to be visible to the Russians in a "look, we're here and we're watching and we're ready" type of way. Plus there's airspace deconfliction with all the other traffic in the area, whether that be in the location of the F35, or elsewhere around the area of Ukraine. Finally, any aircraft has to have mode S on in controlled airspace. It was a throwaway comment rather than any actual knowledge of a specific operation. But I often view flightradar24. It’s amazing how often US tanker aircraft loiter in an area where no other planes are apparent. It could be refuelling something covert. It could be making the Russian’s think they are refuelling something covert. We’ll never know. In a slightly connected topic. Finland and Sweden siding with NATO makes it very hard for Russia to gets its subs in/out of the Baltic without being detected. There was recently an incursion into Danish waters by a Russian Navy vessel. If I was a betting man, that was to mask something coming in/out of the Baltic. Or was it to make us think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 1 hour ago, bickster said: Your average Russian tourist is not your average Russian OK - Your average Russian then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 And the sanctions applied on Russia not effective or are thet not applied as rigorously as we are lead to beleive. Same questions about arms supplied by the best. It would seem a longish war would suit Russia just fine - they are happy to throw partially trained troops at it - Id also bet that the high energy costs will severley test the wests resolve over the winter months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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