srsmithusa Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: This is just silly. He's not in the same league as Jedi as a DM really and the stats back it up. He had a couple of soft ball games at DM and still he lets people run past him too often. Last one was Burton and I thought we fell apart a bit in the middle near the end. He's never going to win the aerial balls that Jedi does. Not sure what's wrong with him being an impact sub. 4 wins and a draw last 6 without him DM suits me fine Sorry, my “silliness” is beyond you. I’ll try not to be dismissive just because we disagree. He creates much more from the position than anyone else. Not sure what stat I’m missing that shows the others turn defensive moments into positive attacking moments more quickly and consistently (there isn’t one). But he does that, and for me THAT is the mark of the better and more positive DM. The ideal DM is not a 3rd center half pushed up, the ideal DM pressures higher than the center half can safely go and creates the quick turn of possession and outlet to a forward pushing teammate. Jedi, in contrast, intercepts a ball and knocks it aimlessly back, or deeper, or wide, and more slowly, letting the opponent pressure farther up rather than forcing the opponent to drop. Our record with B.B. starting at DM was pretty darn good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Sorry, my “silliness” is beyond you. I’ll try not to be dismissive just because we disagree. He creates much more from the position than anyone else. Not sure what stat I’m missing that shows the others turn defensive moments into positive attacking moments more quickly and consistently (there isn’t one). But he does that, and for me THAT is the mark of the better and more positive DM. The ideal DM is not a 3rd center half pushed up, the ideal DM pressures higher than the center half can safely go and creates the quick turn of possession and outlet to a forward pushing teammate. Jedi, in contrast, intercepts a ball and knocks it aimlessly back, or deeper, or wide, and more slowly, letting the opponent pressure farther up rather than forcing the opponent to drop. Our record with B.B. starting at DM was pretty darn good as well. Your point is valid, but so is his. The tricky bit is players offer different things.....thats where managers earn their corn. They both do a good job, with what they do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, TRO said: The tricky bit is players offer different things.....thats where managers earn their corn this Jed back in for the Blues game was the right move it was more aerial and physical , the areas in which he thrives ... equally one of the home matches ( Bristol City maybe ?) the striker was about to have an easy tap in from 6 yards out but BB stole in front of him and blocked it , Jed would probably have been gulping down some Oxygen on the half way line , (and Whelan would probably have passed the ball to the striker after making the block ) , but the BC game was more suited for BB first half on Sat it looked like Jed was the wrong move , but either Bruce subtly changed things at HT or Wolves changed in reaction to the way we'd started to get back on top in the last few minutes of the half , and Jed was the right choice without question QPR it may well be that Jed can have a breather and BB starts again ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: This is just silly. He's not in the same league as Jedi as a DM really and the stats back it up. He had a couple of soft ball games at DM and still he lets people run past him too often. Last one was Burton and I thought we fell apart a bit in the middle near the end. He's never going to win the aerial balls that Jedi does. Not sure what's wrong with him being an impact sub. 4 wins and a draw last 6 without him DM suits me fine This all over. Jedinak is easily the better DM. I got mocked for saying it previously, but I stand by it. Credit to BB for his improvement this year and some of his recent performances. But he is (at least) second choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcohen Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I get some of the stick BB gets, but I love him. I think he puts a lot of effort and passion into his game,. he is very honest, knows his limits and has shown a great attitude from being played in from my count, 5 positions since he has been here. How do we think CH would do at left back? And didn't Jedi have one of his worst games for us at CB? I wouldn't have him in my starting 11 but invaluable off the bench with his commitment and versatility. The reason for this post is I think his goal celebration this weekend shows his frustrations with the club. Lets face it, this could be the best year supporting Villa for a long time and yet we have still got on the back on a number of our own players. (Bacuna was the only one I agreed with. I would get on the Bunn bandwagon if that ever started!) VP was rocking Sat but largely noticeable from the previous lack of atmosphere. Fair enough. The club burned us all. But its time to move on and for me, BB is part of the future of this club and I hope he knows that most fans want him, like all committed and talented players, to stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: this Jed back in for the Blues game was the right move it was more aerial and physical , the areas in which he thrives ... equally one of the home matches ( Bristol City maybe ?) the striker was about to have an easy tap in from 6 yards out but BB stole in front of him and blocked it , Jed would probably have been gulping down some Oxygen on the half way line , (and Whelan would probably have passed the ball to the striker after making the block ) , but the BC game was more suited for BB first half on Sat it looked like Jed was the wrong move , but either Bruce subtly changed things at HT or Wolves changed in reaction to the way we'd started to get back on top in the last few minutes of the half , and Jed was the right choice without question QPR it may well be that Jed can have a breather and BB starts again ... or maybe Jedi would have stopped the move before it even got to a player having a shot Just on his aerial power alone Jedi stops threats before they even become a threat, especially in the Championship where teams are not the most cultured. His consistant winning of aerial battles actually enables us to play on the front foot in the opposition half and is just as important as those who get all the assists. Also, without him we really are a very small team, that alone means Jedi is an absolute must. Sorry BB. Edited March 12, 2018 by rodders0223 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, jimcohen said: But its time to move on and for me, BB is part of the future of this club and I hope he knows that most fans want him, like all committed and talented players, to stay. Just a point here, If we get promoted he shouldn't be part of our future because he's not good enough for the step up to the premier league, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: This all over. Jedinak is easily the better DM. I got mocked for saying it previously, but I stand by it. Credit to BB for his improvement this year and some of his recent performances. But he is (at least) second choice. You didn’t get mocked - people disagreed. I’d have started Bjarnason against Wolves FWIW and was about to moan about the lack of him at half time as Wolves were running us all over the shop and Jedinak doesn’t have the legs to keep tracking. Not entirely sure what changed second half, but it became a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: or maybe Jedi would have stopped the move before it even got to a player having a shot fairly sure it was a ball on the ground , so no 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, villa89 said: Just a point here, If we get promoted he shouldn't be part of our future because he's not good enough for the step up to the premier league, IMO. agree with that sadly I think the same applies to quite a lot of our squad ... hope Tony has deep pockets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Sorry but I disagree. You need to keep the core of this team if we get promoted. There is a lot to be said for togetherness and bonding. Blowing the team up and buying in 'Premier League Quality' players to replace them is a sure fire way to get relegated again. Keep the core, add 2 or 3 players to give us more quality. Slowly but surely. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: You didn’t get mocked - people disagreed. These were the responses to me saying Jedinak would improve us when he was back to fitness instead of Bjarnasson: On 1/30/2018 at 23:20, Rob182 said: On your own, on your own, on your own On 1/30/2018 at 23:21, tonyh29 said: Like it did in the 2-2 draw On 1/30/2018 at 23:27, omariqy said: ROFL On 1/31/2018 at 00:12, Tomaszk said: Some people gutted Thor played well again On 1/31/2018 at 00:43, striker said: Sorry but those two comments are just nonsense. Don't get me wrong. I'm not annoyed by those responses. I make those kind of posts myself by the way. I mock people on here all the time, but it's always good natured (well, most of the time ). People can post what they like within the rules, it's all friendly (apart from maybe Tomaszk, dunno what was bothering him that day) But I'd definitely class that as (good natured) mockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, villa89 said: Just a point here, If we get promoted he shouldn't be part of our future because he's not good enough for the step up to the premier league, IMO. Absolutely. I'm all for keeping as much of the squad together if they're good enough. But I have zero confidence that BB will cut it in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcohen Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, villa89 said: Just a point here, If we get promoted he shouldn't be part of our future because he's not good enough for the step up to the premier league, IMO. Fair enough it is your opinion. I respectfully disagree. Is he worse than these players? I picked them based on fringe holding players. I would suggest not. Kayal- 11 Prem appearence - Brighton - Currenlty 11th Hogg - 22 - Huddersfield -15th Westwood - 11 - Burnley 7th I think it is time to get realistic. Not every player will be world class. BB offers a lot. The above 3 can only play in one position are are no better than BB and are all doing ok in the prem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: This all over. Jedinak is easily the better DM. I got mocked for saying it previously, but I stand by it. Credit to BB for his improvement this year and some of his recent performances. But he is (at least) second choice. Football is all about opinions, and I still disagree with yours here. I still prefer BB in DM over Jedinak. I've seen Jedinak praised for his performance against Wolves, but I actually thought he was really poor in the first half. He's never going to be a quick player, but at times the Wolves players ran rings around him, and the few times that he did get involved, his aerial interceptions went straight to the opposition, as did a few of his passes. Credit where it's due, in the second half he looked like a different player. Me and some of the guys around me in the Holte said that he must have been given a rollocking by Bruce, because he came out as the combative thug that we needed him to be! His lack of pace then wasn't as much of an issue, because he was getting stuck right into the Wolves players and they were less inclined to dance around him like in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: These were the responses to me saying Jedinak would improve us when he was back to fitness instead of Bjarnasson: Don't get me wrong. I'm not annoyed by those responses. I make those kind of posts myself by the way. I mock people on here all the time, but it's always good natured (well, most of the time ). People can post what they like within the rules, it's all friendly (apart from maybe Tomaszk, dunno what was bothering him that day) But I'd definitely class that as (good natured) mockery. mine wasn't mockery , mine was the only other thing you can do on an internet forum , pointing out someone was wrong but in seriousness , without going back and re-reading the thread , I think I was responding to a point about Jed not costing us points , though , yes I bent it a little by quoting an example where Jed was playing CB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 That's photoshopped. Got to be. Tbh I didn't think Jedinak played that well first half but was much better the second half. Against the lesser teams I still prefer Thor in DM to Jedi so surprised he didn't start on Saturday... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Sorry but I disagree. You need to keep the core of this team if we get promoted. There is a lot to be said for togetherness and bonding. Blowing the team up and buying in 'Premier League Quality' players to replace them is a sure fire way to get relegated again. Keep the core, add 2 or 3 players to give us more quality. Slowly but surely. probably for another thread , but I think the reason Whelan and Jed came to us is they knew their prem days were behind them .. same for Terry tbh , he's been great but I don't think he will stay if we go up Hutton , I like his energy but I don't think he's prem quality Johnstone , Grabby and Snodgrass aren't our players ... we may or may not be able to get them on perm deals I kinda agree with you fwiw , but I'm not sure how realistic it is to keep the core of the this team .. potentially starting a Prem season with BB and Hourihane as a CM pairing would be a disaster though , I believe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 If we could combine all three - Whelan, Jedi and Thor, we’d have an 80m pound player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: probably for another thread , but I think the reason Whelan and Jed came to us is they knew their prem days were behind them .. same for Terry tbh , he's been great but I don't think he will stay if we go up Hutton , I like his energy but I don't think he's prem quality Johnstone , Grabby and Snodgrass aren't our players ... we may or may not be able to get them on perm deals I kinda agree with you fwiw , but I'm not sure how realistic it is to keep the core of the this team .. potentially starting a Prem season with BB and Hourihane as a CM pairing would be a disaster though , I believe I'm not for one second saying BB should be starting CM for us in the Prem, but he's a good utility player to have in the squad from the bench. Shouldn't just throw him away if we get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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