Tomaszk Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: They were. It was painfully obvious. Some of them still are. Well now I've heard it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I'm still with Stevo. Jedinak is a far superior defensive midfielder to Birkir. Yes, Birkir is more mobile and he's better on the ball but there aren't many players in the division who read the game better than Jedinak, and he obviously has the physicality that you need in that position in my opinion. Never mind at set pieces where we have been poor without him. He's also more energetic than people give him credit for, he covers a ton of mileage. He's a true 'foundation' player. I like Birkir, he's got a cult hero vibe about him so I get it and he's liable to produce the odd moment of class. Plus he has the ability to cover across the midfield and provide a goal threat. Good utility player, but when he's under serious pressure I always feel he's liable to wilt, whereas Jedinak is an actual real life warrior rather than just having the hair of one. I feel Saturday might have been too much for Birkir. In short I think it's more a case that Jedinak is massively underrated rather than Birkir being massively overrated. Odd to me people still don't appreciate what he (Jedi) brings. Edited March 12, 2018 by dont_do_it_doug. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 i just think its a huge risk to play jedinak 3 games in a week. we dont need him picking up another injury. if he does we only have bjarnasen who can play dm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 9 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: In short I think it's more a case that Jedinak is massively underrated rather than Birkir being massively overrated. Odd to me people still don't appreciate what he (Jedi) brings. I think they're actually really difficult to compare, which is why we're probably having one of our trademark VillaTalk never-ending discussions. I don't think Jedinak is too underrated, nor Birkir overrated. I just think they're really different players, with completely different skillsets, but both able to put in great or pants performances. Jedinak has the strength, the aerial ability, the leadership, the positioning and is able to really impose himself on a game. Whereas Bjarnason has the workrate, the pace, a better passing ability, a decent leap, an eye for goal but can occasionally go missing. I think Jedinak is Bruce's preferred DM, because Bruce is often cautious and will go for a tall, strong DM over a short, fast one. But that doesn't automatically mean that Jedinak is the 'far superior' defensive midfielder. Looking at extreme examples, there are plenty of short, energetic DMs like Thor, such as Mascherano. It's a nice problem to have. Deciding between the Championship Mascherano (Thor), the Championship Matic (Jedi) or the Championship Djemba-Djemba (Whelan). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13, 2018 I'm not sure I agree that BB has a better workrate or passing ability than Jedinak. I think BB's advantages over Jedinak are pace, and he plays slightly more on the front foot at times. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Rob182 said: I think they're actually really difficult to compare, which is why we're probably having one of our trademark VillaTalk never-ending discussions. I don't think Jedinak is too underrated, nor Birkir overrated. I just think they're really different players, with completely different skillsets, but both able to put in great or pants performances. Jedinak has the strength, the aerial ability, the leadership, the positioning and is able to really impose himself on a game. Whereas Bjarnason has the workrate, the pace, a better passing ability, a decent leap, an eye for goal but can occasionally go missing. I think Jedinak is Bruce's preferred DM, because Bruce is often cautious and will go for a tall, strong DM over a short, fast one. But that doesn't automatically mean that Jedinak is the 'far superior' defensive midfielder. Looking at extreme examples, there are plenty of short, energetic DMs like Thor, such as Mascherano. It's a nice problem to have. Deciding between the Championship Mascherano (Thor), the Championship Matic (Jedi) or the Championship Djemba-Djemba (Whelan). I agree with pretty much all of that Sir Bobington. I'd say one of the main reasons Jedi seems to be preferred though however, is because we have a pretty short team. So for set pieces, Jedi is very useful to have in that box, particularly if we're "hanging on". One point against Jedi though, against Wolves - at one point he lost the ball and he was fairly high up the pitch, and casually jogged back as they broke quickly. Now I know that he wasn't involved in that "phase" because it was in front of him, but I certainly expected him to get back, in case we won the ball back. It was a 3 v 3 too, so I was a little disappointing in him there! But on the whole, he's been pretty great. And it's certainly a great problem to have, with some many "good" players vying for 1 spot. They all seem really motivated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm not sure I agree that BB has a better workrate or passing ability than Jedinak. I think BB's advantages over Jedinak are pace, and he plays slightly more on the front foot at times. That's about it. We'll have to agree to disagree. In terms of workrate, I feel that the comparison between the two is like comparing an olympic athlete to a slug with a beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Rob182 said: We'll have to agree to disagree. In terms of workrate, I feel that the comparison between the two is like comparing an olympic athlete to a slug with a beard. ... which one is which...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 You're always the slug @lapal_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob182 said: We'll have to agree to disagree. In terms of workrate, I feel that the comparison between the two is like comparing an olympic athlete to a slug with a beard. But what are you meaning by workrate? Jedinak is undoubtedly slower. But does he work less hard than BB? I don't think he does. Sluglike or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) I mean workrate. Energy. I know my example leans more towards speed, or lack of, because that's what slugs are known for. But I also imagine them to be fairly lazy little ****. In summary, I think BB works harder than Jedinak. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Jedinak fan (it sounds like, right? ), and I value the strengths he has, but I just don't think workrate is one of them. Most games you see him tire after the first half an hour. Not to the extent that he stops playing, but that his clear lack of pace becomes even more lacking because he's shagged. Edited March 13, 2018 by Rob182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I can't back this up because championship analytics are hard to come by, but I read that Jedinak covered more ground per minute than any other Villa player last season. I can find those stats for his time at Palace if you'd like, I know they are definitely out there, but I'm not sure how relevant they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I think some fans, not necessarily anyone here but some, confuse running around a lot with effectiveness. Mile Jedinak reads the game better than almost anyone in this league not named John Terry, which makes up for Birkirs athletic edge. In the same way Jores Okore isn't a better centre half than Terry, this doesn't make Birkir Bjarnason a better defensive mid than Jedi. He can, at times, be rather headless. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I like Thor, and I am glad he is a Villan, but I have to go with the Jedi. When we have a competent attacking line of Snoddy, Albert, Jack, and Grabban, I would prefer that whoever goes into DM improves the defence. If Snods, AA or Jack are missing from the lineup, then I would prefer the Thunder God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13, 2018 54 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I can't back this up because championship analytics are hard to come by, but I read that Jedinak covered more ground per minute than any other Villa player last season. I can find those stats for his time at Palace if you'd like, I know they are definitely out there, but I'm not sure how relevant they are now. I said it earlier in this thread too. I'd love to see those stats because I'd bet good money that Jedinak covers more ground than most of our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I think some fans, not necessarily anyone here but some, confuse running around a lot with effectiveness. Mile Jedinak reads the game better than almost anyone in this league not named John Terry, which makes up for Birkirs athletic edge. In the same way Jores Okore isn't a better centre half than Terry, this doesn't make Birkir Bjarnason a better defensive mid than Jedi. He can, at times, be rather headless. I think people are confusing having legs with running around a lot, rather than being able to track a runner from midfield. Jedinak cannot do this, he's too old and doesn't have the pace. The same is true of Glenn Whelan. Bjarnason, whilst not being particularly quick, tracks well. I think it's partly why he's been garbage on the left wing - he isn't quick or tricky enough to beat a man (Wolves game aside). So he completely nullified us going forwards. However, when he switched to DMC his relative agility and the fact that he constantly looks forward made us a more effective attacking unit. So, it depends what makes you a "better defensive midfielder". Jedinak is a better tackler, stronger and wins more aerial challenges (probably) but also hoofs the ball away, gets run past more easily and doesn't bring the team up the pitch. Bjarnason is a better passer, looks forward more and can get back to win the ball better however he's easily shrugged off the ball and isn't as good at tackling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I have never seen this Birkir Bjarnason people keep referring to. The one who tracks runners like a Viking Kante. It's coming across like I don't rate Birkir, I do. I just don't think he's the player y'all think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumblerseven Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) Well when i saw thor playing dm he was realy impresive and it seems alot people saw that. Good postioning,composure, good ball moving, with hes speed stoped good oposition atacks and with his positioning cut important passes. He was natural like a fish in the water. Edited March 13, 2018 by Tumblerseven 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Work smarter, not harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I have never seen this Birkir Bjarnason people keep referring to. The one who tracks runners like a Viking Kante. It's coming across like I don't rate Birkir, I do. I just don't think he's the player y'all think he is. Similarly, I have never seen this Mile Jedinak who covers all the ground like an Aussie Vieira. Edited March 13, 2018 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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