sir_gary_cahill Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Got no problem with kane as full time captain, he's spurs vice captain and really the talisman of the team regardless of his Roy of the Rovers bullshit at times But after that you have mings as villa captain, rice as west ham, captain, maguire is utds captain, he then didn't play but I'm sure Henderson has captained Liverpool, phillips captains Leeds, coady captain wolves - sterling would be way down the list Personally I'd go for Rice as vice captain to Kane I think I'm more irked by the commentator stating sterling was captain because he had the most caps, that for me is bollocks What do you mean by Roy Of The Rovers ******** regarding Harry Kane? Sterling is an established international winger, I wouldn’t mind him being captain. Personally, I like captains to be centre backs as they can see the whole of the game and inspire the rest of the team and lead from the back. Sterling is an experienced professional now, he can be captain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted March 31, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: Southgate now saying publicly that he has to prove himself for the World Cup is for a start disingenuous and secondly doesn’t exactly take pressure of the lad. Then again he’s always been a disingenuous, weak and cowardly manager, so no surprise there. Absolutely terrible manager. England will not win anything with him as the boss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: What do you mean by Roy Of The Rovers ******** regarding Harry Kane? Sterling is an established international winger, I wouldn’t mind him being captain. Personally, I like captains to be centre backs as they can see the whole of the game and inspire the rest of the team and lead from the back. Sterling is an experienced professional now, he can be captain He wants too much of the ball, wants to do too much Kane is a striker, a damn good one, I get that for spurs he's dropping deeper and having son run past him and they link up brilliantly but for England this is causing a problem because I've no doubt that sterling could do it very well or foden or maybe even mount but Southgate seemingly doesn't anyone to do it so kane drops deeper and we become a bit blunt But then also Kane takes it too far for England, he comes too deep, there were games last year where he popped up at RB and LB FWIW I thought it was Rooneys biggest issue for England too, he wanted to be a number 9 that collected the ball off the CBs on the half way line, it doesn't work 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, villa4europe said: He wants too much of the ball, wants to do too much Kane is a striker, a damn good one, I get that for spurs he's dropping deeper and having son run past him and they link up brilliantly but for England this is causing a problem because I've no doubt that sterling could do it very well or foden or maybe even mount but Southgate seemingly doesn't anyone to do it so kane drops deeper and we become a bit blunt But then also Kane takes it too far for England, he comes too deep, there were games last year where he popped up at RB and LB FWIW I thought it was Rooneys biggest issue for England too, he wanted to be a number 9 that collected the ball off the CBs on the half way line, it doesn't work When the strikers stay up the pitch, they are accused of a lack of work rate, they can’t win. Kane wants to be the main man for England like he is at Spurs. He has to understand that are many great players that play for England and they can share the limelight and work load Rooney had to be the main man too like Kane, he was more of a hothead than Kane. He had so much natural ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, gurru991 said: Absolutely terrible manager. England will not win anything with him as the boss. Gahhh. Trying to put into words why stuff like this annoys me so much, I guess it's just such an offensively safe bet. Like betting on Man City to beat Rushden and Diamonds and then boasting about it afterwards. Guess what, none of the 12 England managers before him (excluding caretakers) won anything either. We haven't won anything for nearly 60 years. Betting on that continuing - when international tournaments are incredibly hard to win - is just such a cop out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Gahhh. Trying to put into words why stuff like this annoys me so much, I guess it's just such an offensively safe bet. Like betting on Man City to beat Rushden and Diamonds and then boasting about it afterwards. Guess what, none of the 12 England managers before him (excluding caretakers) won anything either. We haven't won anything for nearly 60 years. Betting on that continuing - when international tournaments are incredibly hard to win - is just such a cop out. I put the comments about Southgate being "terrible" and so on down to that rare phenomenon of "people being wrong on the internet". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, blandy said: I put the comments about Southgate being "terrible" and so on down to that rare phenomenon of "people being wrong on the internet". Well he's definitely not terrible but an England manager with this breadth of talent available should be great or better and he isn't great is he. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 Just now, Phil Silvers said: Well he's definitely not terrible but an England manager with this breadth of talent available should be great or better and he isn't great is he. I agree we've got a big breadth of attacking talent in particular, and decent midfielders and full backs for sure, but I feel that we've had good players for a long time, and Southgate is the only manager since Bobby Robson in 1990 and Venables in '96 to get the team to do well (but not win) in tournaments. I think he's a good England manager, and a good fit as manager. I get as frustrated as many others with his seemingly overly negative approach to some games and his preference for often picking 2 defensive midfielders, and his substitution choices and all the rest, but you can't really argue that results or performances are as bad as people often say. A bit more of the bravery or attacking zeal that Venables had and he'd be pretty much the perfect fit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, blandy said: I agree we've got a big breadth of attacking talent in particular, and decent midfielders and full backs for sure, but I feel that we've had good players for a long time, and Southgate is the only manager since Bobby Robson in 1990 and Venables in '96 to get the team to do well (but not win) in tournaments. I think he's a good England manager, and a good fit as manager. I get as frustrated as many others with his seemingly overly negative approach to some games and his preference for often picking 2 defensive midfielders, and his substitution choices and all the rest, but you can't really argue that results or performances are as bad as people often say. A bit more of the bravery or attacking zeal that Venables had and he'd be pretty much the perfect fit. Fair. I get the feeling he goes out there to not be embarrassed first, even when playing teams a second string could wallop. I always feel he's self indulgent and that HIS record comes before success, give me more pointless friendlies, the more the better. Regardless of style or lack of bottle, what we might have done and the luck of the tournament draws, he has done decent enough to not have to put up with people saying that he's terrible tough. Edited March 31, 2022 by Phil Silvers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil Silvers said: I always feel he's self indulgent and that HIS record comes before success That's interesting, 'cus I kind of get the opposite impression. I accept that like everyone he has an ego, and particularly top level sports people do. But my impression, not just from him, but from listening to players speak about him and former team mates and colleagues etc. they all say that he is an intelligent and humble and kind and balanced and thoughtful and unselfish etc. and that it's a case of the team coming first and getting everyone to both contribute and take praise and accept responsibility and be a unit. But my reading might be wrong, other opinions are available. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, blandy said: That's interesting, 'cus I kind of get the opposite impression. I accept that like everyone he has an ego, and particularly top level sports people do. But my impression, not just from him, but from listening to players speak about him and former team mates and colleagues etc. they all say that he is an intelligent and humble and kind and balanced and thoughtful and unselfish etc. and that it's a case of the team coming first and getting everyone to both contribute and take praise and accept responsibility and be a unit. But my reading might be wrong, other opinions are available. No that's a fair outlook and one I'd rather be the real state of affairs then my own views of the man. Hope he puts me and any other doubters in our places come the World Cup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil Silvers said: Hope he puts me and any other doubters in our places come the World Cup. Me too. He got the selection and tactics badly wrong in the final against Italy, especially second half. I hope he has learnt, but there's always the doubt that he's hit his ceiling. We'll see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 People often say we should be doiing better but back when Sven was manager we probably had a more balanced array of talent. We have a decent keeper bit not top class. We dont have oustanding cbs like Ferdinand and Terry. We have one world class CF but no top class backup. The rest of positions we are strong though. The oppostion isnt as good as it was though. I expect England to go the way in this world-cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted March 31, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Gahhh. Trying to put into words why stuff like this annoys me so much, I guess it's just such an offensively safe bet. Like betting on Man City to beat Rushden and Diamonds and then boasting about it afterwards. Guess what, none of the 12 England managers before him (excluding caretakers) won anything either. We haven't won anything for nearly 60 years. Betting on that continuing - when international tournaments are incredibly hard to win - is just such a cop out. Gahhh I never said that I was betting on him to lose. I was predicting it !! The fact that we haven't won anything for 60 years has no bearing whatsoever on whether Southgate is a competent manager or not. I think he is nothing more than a well spoken frontman who hasn't had an original thought ever. Will you be happy if Gerrard wins nothing because none of the other managers did.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, gurru991 said: Will you be happy if Gerrard wins nothing because none of the other managers did.?? Well I won't be getting upset about it. We've got even less chance of winning anything than England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted March 31, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well I won't be getting upset about it. We've got even less chance of winning anything than England. Apparently you have low expectations. I think England have the players to win if managed correctly & it's a shame we have a weak manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted April 1, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2022 8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Well I won't be getting upset about it. We've got even less chance of winning anything than England. With the players England have they should be favourites for winning a tournament, especially with the draws and locations involved recently. It's fair to feel England should and could have done better and capitulated against teams we could have potentially beat. Past performance isn't the defining factor of current performance, if it was then recent league winners would be very different. Just look at the recent fortunes of Utd now being awful, or Liverpool winning after waiting decades. I also think Villa have a chance at winning something in the next couple of seasons. We've been to various semi's and finals in the cups in the last 20 years and if past performance is a factor then that would suggest we have a chance. Also, some teams worse then us have won cups recently. Even Birmingham won one. However, the main reason I think we have a chance is the development and growth of the club. The league is likely some ways off but a cup win is possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Rds1983 said: With the players England have they should be favourites for winning a tournament, especially with the draws and locations involved recently. It's fair to feel England should and could have done better and capitulated against teams we could have potentially beat. Well we came within a kick or two of winning the Euros, so we were extremely close to winning on home soil. For all of the (largely justified) criticism about Southgate's negativity in the final, a penalty shootout is a coin flip, and he can't be held personally responsible for players taking crap penalties. I don't see why anyone would think we *should* have done much better in Russia. There's been a lot of rewriting history based on subsequent events, but the actual narrative going into that tournament was that England were shit, and doing anything at all would be remarkable. Nobody prior to the tournament expected that we should be getting as far as even the semis. In general, I don't agree that England should be 'favourites for winning a tournament', or that they should have been recently. In 2018 Belgium were clearly in their prime, for instance, and while England were arguably one of the strongest teams in 2020 they certainly weren't *clearly* stronger than Italy who hadn't lost a game for years, for one, or clearly stronger than France either come to that. Beyond that, you're just under-rating how difficult it is to win an international tournament. Knock-out football is always less predictable and more random than league football, and while England have plenty of talent there are other nations that do too. Anyway, the current manager has the best record in knock-out football for 55 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted April 1, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well we came within a kick or two of winning the Euros, so we were extremely close to winning on home soil. For all of the (largely justified) criticism about Southgate's negativity in the final, a penalty shootout is a coin flip, and he can't be held personally responsible for players taking crap penalties. I don't see why anyone would think we *should* have done much better in Russia. There's been a lot of rewriting history based on subsequent events, but the actual narrative going into that tournament was that England were shit, and doing anything at all would be remarkable. Nobody prior to the tournament expected that we should be getting as far as even the semis. In general, I don't agree that England should be 'favourites for winning a tournament', or that they should have been recently. In 2018 Belgium were clearly in their prime, for instance, and while England were arguably one of the strongest teams in 2020 they certainly weren't *clearly* stronger than Italy who hadn't lost a game for years, for one, or clearly stronger than France either come to that. Beyond that, you're just under-rating how difficult it is to win an international tournament. Knock-out football is always less predictable and more random than league football, and while England have plenty of talent there are other nations that do too. Anyway, the current manager has the best record in knock-out football for 55 years. Difference in opinion bud, don't worry. It's all good. I'm going to get back to making my coffee... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well we came within a kick or two of winning the Euros, so we were extremely close to winning on home soil. For all of the (largely justified) criticism about Southgate's negativity in the final, a penalty shootout is a coin flip, and he can't be held personally responsible for players taking crap penalties. I don't see why anyone would think we *should* have done much better in Russia. There's been a lot of rewriting history based on subsequent events, but the actual narrative going into that tournament was that England were shit, and doing anything at all would be remarkable. Nobody prior to the tournament expected that we should be getting as far as even the semis. In general, I don't agree that England should be 'favourites for winning a tournament', or that they should have been recently. In 2018 Belgium were clearly in their prime, for instance, and while England were arguably one of the strongest teams in 2020 they certainly weren't *clearly* stronger than Italy who hadn't lost a game for years, for one, or clearly stronger than France either come to that. Beyond that, you're just under-rating how difficult it is to win an international tournament. Knock-out football is always less predictable and more random than league football, and while England have plenty of talent there are other nations that do too. Anyway, the current manager has the best record in knock-out football for 55 years. he can be when he subbed 2 of them on to take penalties but if you go back through the Euro 2020 threads italy were the better team in that tournament, he made mistakes in the game, those penalty subs, mount on the right, not bringing grealish on earlier etc but we lost to the tournaments best team what he's done well is he's tickled the bollocks of the players and got them to seemingly want to be there which for all the talent of the golden generation was again seemingly the problem, that's why the likes of coady and even mings will stay in and around this team he has benefitted from the shift in football where the rivalries have been put to bed, they're all on each others social media and mates off the pitch as well as we won stuff at youth level* so he does have a crop to work with, foden being the obvious one all that said I still think that he is purposefully leaning towards protecting our weakness - we do have a shit defence - rather than towards our strength - we have a world class attack, sounds strange to say that hopefully phillips is injured for a bit longer and bellingham plays a bit more, ive got nothing against phillips but him and rice as a pair doesnt work for me, i can see why southgate likes it but it stifles us and as a result we're painfully boring to watch at times, he is safe but he's also safe in more ways than one, hence why the FA wont sack him, he's here for a long time but with all his hypocrisy in his interviews, his stubbornness with his selections, his distorted opinion on experience basically meaning that he favours top 4 players its easy to see why people dont like him * our U21s have a bigger management problem, the FA never pull the plug at the right time or appoint the right guy, watched a bit of them recently to watch ramsey and i dont see a ton of talent there if im honest, if you look through all of the age groups then england will be ok but if you look at the U21s and ask who's next its not a long list, ramsey, elliot, probably Jones because he plays for liverpool, there's seemingly a lot of 20/21 year olds in that team who are still struggling to get PL football 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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