Gareth Southgate

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Saw some football bible Facebook thing call him out so went to read the comments.... He still has support out there, seems like there's a lot of fans still basing their opinion of him around the last 20 years and his tournament record and regarding him as good

Played football last night and as we were walking off, one lad said “we drew 1-1 - Southgate’s got to go, eh?” so I replied then realised he was being sarcastic as he came back with “ahhh, I’m not so sure. He’s done well with us results-wise”.

Massive football fan, very level headed. I can see where he’s coming from if you look at performance entirely in isolation without taking into account the team played or anything… but we’re going nowhere. 

[villa4europe]

Yep, his Wikipedia makes for great reading, these 2 games mean we're unbeaten in this qualifying campaign and in 2023

As long as you don't watch us we're pretty good...

And fortunately for Southgate a huge portion of the England fan base don't, that's the reality, listen to Dublin last night and how ridiculous his commentary was, the audience that he's targeting hold the majority, not us on here

[StefanAVFC]

Absolutely bizarre what he's done to Konsa.

Even worse that they paraded him in front of the media, did a conference etc only for him to be the only outfield player not to get minutes.

I detest the word removed.

[Mic09]

43 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Absolutely bizarre what he's done to Konsa.

Even worse that they paraded him in front of the media, did a conference etc only for him to be the only outfield player not to get minutes.

I detest the word removed.

You are getting it wrong, it's a smart move. Keep the first choice Konsa healthy and fit for the big games and trial that joker Maguire in the lesser fixtures, you know, to keep him match ready.

That is the thinking behind it Gareth, right?

Right?! 

[tonyh29]

On 18/11/2023 at 13:51, MWARLEY2 said:

In 7 years he has taken us to a semi and a final.

Didn't the FA set that as part of their plan when they started the academy before Safegate was appointed   .. the aim being to then win a major tournament at the third one ( he failed in Qatar) 

but you could say he's kinda delivered  ..or you could say the players have achieved this in spite of him   .. We wont get a better chance than the Euros we choked v Italy , a better manager would have seen Italy were there for the taking but his obsession with Mason Mount  and the Phillips Rice combo saw us blow the main chance we had ... and then putting the penalties onto young kids  , two of who he bought on specifically for that job , was 100% on him , even though he then tried to throw players under the bus by saying they wouldn't take one  

 

[villa4europe]

I'd say that in that same 7 years we've won world cups and / or euros at u17, u19, u20 and u21 level

He has the players

Its in spite of him, he has attacking players, kane especially, who can snatch games for him, he plays to our weakness in defence rather than our strength in attack, his management style is out dated at best and doesn't suit the players he has

[NeilS]

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

Played football last night and as we were walking off, one lad said “we drew 1-1 - Southgate’s got to go, eh?” so I replied then realised he was being sarcastic as he came back with “ahhh, I’m not so sure. He’s done well with us results-wise”.

Massive football fan, very level headed. I can see where he’s coming from if you look at performance entirely in isolation without taking into account the team played or anything… but we’re going nowhere. 

Most people I speak to think he is useless and should go, but you do occasionally hear a few supportive voices. The question I would like to ask those people who still support Southgate as England Manager is would they be happy for him to manage the team they support when he leaves the England role? I reckon a fair few would then change their tack then.

[NeilS]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Its in spite of him, he has attacking players, kane especially, who can snatch games for him, he plays to our weakness in defence rather than our strength in attack, his management style is out dated at best and doesn't suit the players he has

The problem created by Southgate is that with Kane playing all of the time, no other forward has had an opportunity to play any significant amount of time in the team. Therefore when they finally get an opportunity the player coming in is unsure of his role, or what his team mates are going to do, and has no opportunity to build up their confidence within the team.

When Ollie did get a start against the Aussies, the whole team had been changed so no good came of that match for Ollie as it would be unlikely that he would play for England with that same team again. We see it at Villa too, particularly in the Mostar match this season, many players rotated leads to a disjointed performance, bring on the three regular players at half time and the players looked far more threatening to the Mostar defence.

[HanoiVillan]

10 minutes ago, NeilS said:

Most people I speak to think he is useless and should go, but you do occasionally hear a few supportive voices. The question I would like to ask those people who still support Southgate as England Manager is would they be happy for him to manage the team they support when he leaves the England role? I reckon a fair few would then change their tack then.

That doesn't seem like a very relevant question. There have been plenty of good international managers who haven't been good club managers and vice versa. 

[MWARLEY2]

6 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

Didn't the FA set that as part of their plan when they started the academy before Safegate was appointed   .. the aim being to then win a major tournament at the third one ( he failed in Qatar) 

but you could say he's kinda delivered  ..or you could say the players have achieved this in spite of him   .. We wont get a better chance than the Euros we choked v Italy , a better manager would have seen Italy were there for the taking but his obsession with Mason Mount  and the Phillips Rice combo saw us blow the main chance we had ... and then putting the penalties onto young kids  , two of who he bought on specifically for that job , was 100% on him , even though he then tried to throw players under the bus by saying they wouldn't take one  

 

Totally agree. I was just putting it out there to give some balance. The reality is that Italy was our best chance to win and we lost as you say. Southgate hasnt won much has he. 

 He lost a European final with Boro. Got them relegated. Didnt win with the u21s and has failed with the england seniors. 

But has won 2 carling cups with us and Boro as a player. 

He makes bad decisions at the worst of times because he doesnt have a winning mentality. He seeks to Make us the number 1 ranked team rather than a winning team. He thinks players getting on and losing is better than players hating one another and winning. 

The wierdest thing is that alot of fans and the FA accept it. Truth be told we werent the best footballing nation for many many years. But when the coaching caught up. When the players being produced were technicallly as good as all the other countries , we still dont have a winning mentality. Wouldnt it be good to have a managing director of the FA who came out and said that we are totally focussed on winning a trophy and that they will not rest until we do. But we dont get that. Because if they do and fail their job would be untenable. We just need someone with balls to shake everything up . 

[gilbertoAVFC]

Genuinely incredible watching Maguire turn like a cargo ship and ping head-height diags at Macedonia attackers, knowing Konsa has literally never got close to making mistakes like that - not to mention that pen.

I have nothing against Maguire, but I take personal offence that Southgate actually thinks he is better than Konsa.

[Stevo985]

On 21/11/2023 at 09:06, villa4europe said:

Saw some football bible Facebook thing call him out so went to read the comments.... He still has support out there, seems like there's a lot of fans still basing their opinion of him around the last 20 years and his tournament record and regarding him as good

It's because people can't see past the fact that he's the most successful manager in the last 60 years.

Which is obviously true, but it completely removes the context of the talent of the squad. It's like congratulating the current Man City team for winning a game against an under 8's girls team 1-0.

Some people can't comprehend the possibility that a manager could have done an ok job, but still have underperformed significantly.

[cyrusr]

On 21/11/2023 at 07:52, Villan_of_oz said:

A manager that prepares his team's not to win but to not lose will never win a trophy (that anyone cares about)

 

Ahem, Bruce I think disagrees with you; this is one of the most coveted trophies of all time!

 

OT, Southgate though is an utterly dire manager. Has killed any desire to support England for me (not that it was particularly high prior to be fair). I do hope he goes sooner rather than later and get someone into the job that is actually competent. Although given how the FA is, I suspect they will try and appoint Hodgson or Allardyce again... 

[sidcow]

7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It's because people can't see past the fact that he's the most successful manager in the last 60 years.

Which is obviously true, but it completely removes the context of the talent of the squad. It's like congratulating the current Man City team for winning a game against an under 8's girls team 1-0.

Some people can't comprehend the possibility that a manager could have done an ok job, but still have underperformed significantly.

Not only has he got the most talented squad of players ever. But he's up against significantly poorer opposition. Maybe it's because the game is so global now but there are just no outstanding teams in world football anymore. 

Brazil are so, so. The spark has gone. 

Spain are like a fallen giant. 

The Germans have lost their machine like efficiency. 

France seem a shadow. 

The Italians no longer defend like their lives depend on it. 

Argentina sneaked the world cup because of a unbelievable goal keeper and the final hurrah of one of the best players of all time. 

There is no one to fear, no one at all.  Coming up against any of those teams for the last 30 years would have seemed like an impossible job. 

With a decent manager I'd back us to beat any of them, and beat them well.  In fact not even a decent manager, just one who let's the forwards express themselves and doesn't play Phillips, Henderson and Maguire. We've got the tools to beat anyone. 

But he'll still lose to them like Italy because he's just a terrible decision maker and a poor manager. His players can still trounce most others in world football because of their quality, but those teams, despite being faded stars still have enough to edge out a badly set up team with the wrong players and wrong tactics. 

We're the living embodiment of a flat track bully. But people remember all the wins and can't see we'll ultimately fall short. 

[HanoiVillan]

We very obviously do not have 'the most talented squad of players ever'. Just for one, the team who knocked us out of the last World Cup have a better squad of players. 

[MaVilla]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

We very obviously do not have 'the most talented squad of players ever'. Just for one, the team who knocked us out of the last World Cup have a better squad of players. 

i think @sidcow meant we probably have the most talented England squad ever, not the most talented squad in the world.

I would tend to agree also, this England squad is better than the so called golden generation squad (Beckham's, Lampards, Gerrards era etc), this generation of players in the England squad have the physicality of the usual England type squads, but also has the ability to play the "modern game" (in theory - Southgate doesnt seem to care or use it), which i dont think any previous generations had to a great degree, in the last 30-40 years+.

i have no doubt at all that Southgate will f**k it up though, i detest that guy.

Edited November 24, 2023 by MaVilla

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

i think @sidcow meant we probably have the most talented England squad ever, not the most talented squad in the world.

I would tend to agree also, this England squad is better than the so called golden generation squad (Beckham's, Lampards, Gerrards era etc), this generation of players in the England squad have the physicality of the usual England type squads, but also has the ability to play the "modern game", which i dont think any previous generations had to a great degree, in the last 30-40 years+.

I don't agree that this is the most talented England squad ever either. We probably have the worst goalie (compared to contemporary peers) to have achieved his number of caps, currently no fit left-backs and neither of the two he favours are anywhere close to Ashley Cole even when fit, we have John Stones and then some pretty rickety options at CB, and the central midfield options beyond Rice and Bellingham aren't great by the standards of the best teams in the world either. 

England obviously have a very good squad, both by historical standards and by comparison to 98% of FIFA nations. But it's not clearly 'the most talented' in either comparison. 

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

We very obviously do not have 'the most talented squad of players ever'. Just for one, the team who knocked us out of the last World Cup have a better squad of players. 

As per @MaVilla. I meant England squad. 

And we could easily have a better squad of players than a team who knocked us out........... Because we've got a shit managedr.

Edited November 24, 2023 by sidcow

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't agree that this is the most talented England squad ever either. We probably have the worst goalie (compared to contemporary peers) to have achieved his number of caps, currently no fit left-backs and neither of the two he favours are anywhere close to Ashley Cole even when fit, we have John Stones and then some pretty rickety options at CB, and the central midfield options beyond Rice and Bellingham aren't great by the standards of the best teams in the world either. 

England obviously have a very good squad, both by historical standards and by comparison to 98% of FIFA nations. But it's not clearly 'the most talented' in either comparison. 

Well fine, that's your opinion.  Southgate is obviously a brilliant manager just hampered in his quest for world dominance by a poor keeper and dodgy defensive capabilities.  Probably why he overloads the team with defenders the poor wee lamb.  Feel sorry for him. 

[Stevo985]

7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

We very obviously do not have 'the most talented squad of players ever'. Just for one, the team who knocked us out of the last World Cup have a better squad of players. 

I assume he meant most talented England squad.

Which I agree with. I think it's top heavy. We're nowhere near as good in defence as we are in attack. But overall the depth of talent we have in this squad is outrageous