Steve Bruce

[Rob182]

I've seen a few people say that a centre-mid pairing of Jedinak and Whelan would be a disaster, but would it definitely? I'm sure I've seen other teams play two DMs and still play fairly attacking football and/or score enough goals to win games comfortably.

 

If Jedi and Whelan were told to both sit back, but then Hourihane, Green, Kodjia and Elmo/Adomah/Snodgrass were told to run riot in front of them, could it work?

 

(Obviously Steve Bruce's negative/ defensive style is part of the problem, but we'll encounter that whether Jedi & Whelan play together or not).

[Stevo985]

Just now, Rob182 said:

I've seen a few people say that a centre-mid pairing of Jedinak and Whelan would be a disaster, but would it definitely? I'm sure I've seen other teams play two DMs and still play fairly attacking football and/or score enough goals to win games comfortably.

 

If Jedi and Whelan were told to both sit back, but then Hourihane, Green, Kodjia and Elmo/Adomah/Snodgrass were told to run riot in front of them, could it work?

 

(Obviously Steve Bruce's negative/ defensive style is part of the problem, but we'll encounter that whether Jedi & Whelan play together or not).

It could definitely work, but VillaTalk would implode.

[Zatman]

Bristol City game proved what most expected. Bruce stumbled upon a team through luck vs Norwich

[DCJonah]

48 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I've seen a few people say that a centre-mid pairing of Jedinak and Whelan would be a disaster, but would it definitely? I'm sure I've seen other teams play two DMs and still play fairly attacking football and/or score enough goals to win games comfortably.

 

If Jedi and Whelan were told to both sit back, but then Hourihane, Green, Kodjia and Elmo/Adomah/Snodgrass were told to run riot in front of them, could it work?

 

(Obviously Steve Bruce's negative/ defensive style is part of the problem, but we'll encounter that whether Jedi & Whelan play together or not).

Can't think of many attacking reams that play with 2 slow sitting midfield players. 

I think the opposition would handle things fairly easily if it's the same 4 players constantly attacking. You need overlapping left and right backs, you need that extra runner from midfield at times. 

And with Bruce I have no doubt that Whelan and jedinak would result in very defensive football, looking for one player to create a goal out of nothing for a 1-0 win

[DCJonah]

49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It could definitely work, but VillaTalk would implode.

With good reason

[dn1982]

48 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I've seen a few people say that a centre-mid pairing of Jedinak and Whelan would be a disaster, but would it definitely? I'm sure I've seen other teams play two DMs and still play fairly attacking football and/or score enough goals to win games comfortably.

 

If Jedi and Whelan were told to both sit back, but then Hourihane, Green, Kodjia and Elmo/Adomah/Snodgrass were told to run riot in front of them, could it work?

 

(Obviously Steve Bruce's negative/ defensive style is part of the problem, but we'll encounter that whether Jedi & Whelan play together or not).

Can you name any teams that'd play 2 DM like them though? Jedinak struggles in a 2 and isn't that good at keeping possession. Whelan would have to be the legs and also the one who helps out attacks and that's not his game. I can see Bruce doing it though.  

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

Consider this. 4 promotions, with teams with less resources and expectations than Villa. Bruce comes in, inherits a team with next to no midfield, and takes us from the bottom half to pushing for a play off spot. He gets a transfer window, choosing his players, but crumbles during January and February. By the grace of Kodija's return, we hit a purple patch for about 7 or 8 games, but fall to shit again. After a pre season and a few more acquisitions, the roster is looking great but its just the same old shit.

I am thinking that Bruce works best without the weight of too much expectation, and relishes the underdog status. Despite his experience, I am suspecting he is too overawed with the job at Villa. If this is the case, he is the wrong manager for us.

I agree with a lot of that. It doesn't really help that we really strive to perpetuate the idea that we are a 'massive club' at any given opportunity, as it just serves to increase that pressure. 

The problem we have is that it's not easy to find someone who both isn't going to be overawed by the experience and is good. We've had our fingers burnt by experienced managers, inexperienced managers, foreign ones and domestic ones. Getting it right is obviously not an easy task and also requires a degree of luck IMO. 

[Rob182]

17 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Can't think of many attacking reams that play with 2 slow sitting midfield players. 

I think the opposition would handle things fairly easily if it's the same 4 players constantly attacking. You need overlapping left and right backs, you need that extra runner from midfield at times. 

And with Bruce I have no doubt that Whelan and jedinak would result in very defensive football, looking for one player to create a goal out of nothing for a 1-0 win

There's nothing stopping overlapping left and right backs from joining attacks. I wasn't saying that it'd JUST be the 4 forward players involved in attacks. Wouldn't an extra DM in centre-mid mean that the fullbacks could potentially attack more, because we would have so much protection in front of the two central defenders.

 

Also, regarding an extra runner from midfield, Hourihane (or whoever we play in the AMC role) could still be that extra runner from midfield.

 

I don't disagree with your last sentence, but we're going to have that Bruce-defensive-mindset in whatever formation we play.

[Rob182]

20 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Can you name any teams that'd play 2 DM like them though? Jedinak struggles in a 2 and isn't that good at keeping possession. Whelan would have to be the legs and also the one who helps out attacks and that's not his game. I can see Bruce doing it though.  

Nope. But I would probably struggle to name 11 footballers outside of our own squad. I vaguely remember Man City playing with 2 defensive midfielders and still scoring bucket loads of goals a number of years ago (yes, yes, I know we're not Man City and don't have the quality they have, but in our league we could easily be compared to a team spending money, with numerous options, who should be battling for the top spot).

[Rob182]

I just feel like this whole "Don't play Whelan & Jedi" could be similar to someone saying "Bruce needs to play 2 strikers in a 4-4-2, because if we play 1 striker with Bruce's defensive football, we'll never win". It's not all as simple as: 2 Strikers = better. 2 DMs = worse.

[Kingman]

31 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Bristol City game proved what most expected. Bruce stumbled upon a team through luck vs Norwich

Yeah I would say that form has since been franked by Millwall 4-0 result. 

[vreitti]

3 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

There's nothing stopping overlapping left and right backs from joining attacks. I wasn't saying that it'd JUST be the 4 forward players involved in attacks. Wouldn't an extra DM in centre-mid mean that the fullbacks could potentially attack more, because we would have so much protection in front of the two central defenders.

Why on earth would we need to set up so that we are dependent on our full backs attacking,  potentially leaving us unnecessarily exposed at the back, when we have an abundance of attacking players in the squad?

4 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Also, regarding an extra runner from midfield, Hourihane (or whoever we play in the AMC role) could still be that extra runner from midfield.

You're not seriously suggesting Hourihane operating as a runner? It just isn't his style, nor does he have the legs for it. And who then would you have as a playmaker? Jedinak or Whelan!? Onomah on the other hand is a natural runner, and I'm actually pretty astonished Bruce has managed to see that we needed such a player.

This doesn't leave room to play both Whelan and Jedinak, as it should be. 

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

It could definitely work, but VillaTalk would implode.

Maybe in some away games at places like Leeds or boro but hopefully not at home .

[Rob182]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

Why on earth would we need to set up so that we are dependent on our full backs attacking,  potentially leaving us unnecessarily exposed at the back, when we have an abundance of attacking players in the squad?

You're not seriously suggesting Hourihane operating as a runner? It just isn't his style, nor does he have the legs for it. And who then would you have as a playmaker? Jedinak or Whelan!? Onomah on the other hand is a natural runner, and I'm actually pretty astonished Bruce has managed to see that we needed such a player.

This doesn't leave room to play both Whelan and Jedinak, as it should be. 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate. People seem dead against the idea, but should Bruce surprise us one day with this combination, it would actually be our most experienced and successful pair of central midfielders.

[Rob182]

4 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Why on earth would we need to set up so that we are dependent on our full backs attacking,  potentially leaving us unnecessarily exposed at the back, when we have an abundance of attacking players in the squad?

The abundance of attacking players that are managing 1 goal against Bristol City and 1 goal against Hull..... and 0 goals against Cardiff...?

 

I'm just saying it might not be as terrible as some, you included, are making out.

[Eastie]

4 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

The abundance of attacking players that are managing 1 goal against Bristol City and 1 goal against Hull..... and 0 goals against Cardiff...?

 

I'm just saying it might not be as terrible as some, you included, are making out.

Done  in the right way it can provide protection for the back 4 and release the like  of green hourihane and snograss to support the striker . 

Not sure Bruce would use the system in the right way though .

 

[HAL]

we have enough attackers we just have an defensive minded manager/assistant . the two times he took the shackles off we scored and looked good doing it

[sne]

Having those 2 together will likely work defensively but would require the 3rd CM to also drop deep and collect the ball from them as neither is good enough to be the main playmaker. Be it Onomah, Lansbury, Hourihane, Grealish or Snodgrass.

The risk would be that the 3 remaining players would be easily closed down and our attacks would fizzle out before the rest of the team are back up in the opposition half.

If we play with higher pressing and the team further up it might work, but then our very slow defenders will get exposed..

It could work.

It's not the way I'd use to get the best out of our squad at hand, but then again I don't have 4 promotions.

 

[Rob182]

19 minutes ago, sne said:

Having those 2 together will likely work defensively but would require the 3rd CM to also drop deep and collect the ball from them as neither is good enough to be the main playmaker. Be it Onomah, Lansbury, Hourihane, Grealish or Snodgrass.

The risk would be that the 3 remaining players would be easily closed down and our attacks would fizzle out before the rest of the team are back up in the opposition half.

If we play with higher pressing and the team further up it might work, but then our very slow defenders will get exposed..

It could work.

It's not the way I'd use to get the best out of our squad at hand, but then again I don't have 4 promotions.

 

Likewise, I wouldn't use it. I prefer the formation and teams that we've played in our recent 4-goal wins. If I saw Bruce set up with both the oldies then I'm not going to complain until I see how we play.

 

Whether we play 1 striker, 3 strikers, 2 DMs or 0 DMs, I believe our results will largely be determined by whether Bruce decides to go 'all in' and tell the team to throw caution to the wind.

[dn1982]

54 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Nope. But I would probably struggle to name 11 footballers outside of our own squad. I vaguely remember Man City playing with 2 defensive midfielders and still scoring bucket loads of goals a number of years ago (yes, yes, I know we're not Man City and don't have the quality they have, but in our league we could easily be compared to a team spending money, with numerous options, who should be battling for the top spot).

There's a massive differnce between midfielders that sit and ones that are out and out defensive midfielders. Jedinak is an out and out defensive midfielder and Whelan is more of a holding one. One thing I do agree on is we should be challenging I just think we wont with 2 DM like those pair.