Steve Bruce

[Guest av1]

If it's young and hungry we want , this fella is out of work

 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Warnock said:

No, just think you need to calm down a bit. 

Calm down  

You need to stop under reacting.

[VILLAMARV]

[markavfc40]

I'd imagine if there is to be a change in manager it would happen very quickly. The season starts in two weeks and if there is wheeling and dealing to be done it starts pretty much now and you'd want the person over seeing that to be the manager going into the season. If Bruce is still in charge come early next week then he will be getting the first couple of months of the season at least.

We still don't know if we will have a pot to piss in this window and if Grealish, Chester, Adomah, Kodjia etc will have to be sold. We therefore still don't know what is realistic next season. Interesting couple of weeks ahead.

Edited July 20, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Genuine question .... Do you think that he can radically change his methods and football philosophy?

I think he can.

He had a vision for last season and it nearly worked.....I was not in favour totally, but felt it was worth a try....I could see flaws, but maybe he could too

I think our stamina an energy was in question at times and in an effort to  stay with experience, I think he made some errors.

Its without doubt, his opinion of the weight of expectation influenced his approach.....I think he will have learned something from that, plus the younger lads will be 12 months more experienced and developed.

I can't second guess what the new owners thoughts are, but I would suspect they will favour gradual change as opposed to wholesale change.....but thats just my guess.

I think Steve Bruce will be given one more season.

I could be wrong, but I think Bruce works with what he has......you can't by player A for 5 Mill if you only have 2.5 mill you have to settle for player B.

I think it is fair comment, to say Bruce is too cautious at times, but I think some mangers are too gungho too......its the balance that is tricky.

For me, if I was building a side in this league and knowing big money transfer fee's are the quickest way out of the job, if they fail to materialise.....I would go for the 3 x P's     Power/Pace/Presence.  that would be my criteria to get out of this league.

Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd imagine if there is to be a change in manager it would happen very quickly. The season starts in two weeks and if there is wheeling and dealing to be done it starts pretty much now and you'd want the person over seeing that to be the manager going into the season. If Bruce is still in charge come early next week then he will be getting the first couple of months of the season at least.

We still don't know if we will have a pot to piss in this window and if Grealish, Chester, Adomah, Kodjia etc will have to be sold. We therefore still don't know what is realistic next season. Interesting couple of weeks ahead.

To be honest I’d imagine some would have to go - I’m no accountant but in most cases with our better players we are surely either paying them Premier League wages which is financially unsound or we aren’t and ( some ) will feel they could/ should get more.

I would actually mind any sales ( even Jack !) far less with these owners than was the case before today.

Sales THEN felt like a huge waste.....if we sell now I’m happy to accept it’s part of a proper plan for sustainable development.

In my view that means a fair proportion of our ‘ stars’ and experience leaving. The other side of that is more of the younger players being brought through. As such, I cannot see them keeping Bruce. (Particularly as when sacking his Coach in the States Edens cited a failure to win anything despite a couple of sound seasons ).

I expect a new Manager next week.....but if not, I agree they will keep him for now.

They won’t have to worry about the RDM scenario of one Manager buying players then a new one not wanting them.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Warnock will probably be available in a few months. 

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Tro, you do know that means no Bruce right? 

Well if thats what it means, thats what it means.

Look, I have no problem a better manager coming in.....I have only defended him when ( I think) the criticism is unfair.

We haven't exactly been blessed with them over the last 10 years.

Please forgive me for being grateful for 24 wins last season..... 27 would have been the holy grail......"Throwing the baby our with the bath water" is a legitimate quote.

Warnock succeeded with his second try......Jokanovic succeeded with his second try......who is to say Bruce is not going to succeed with his third.

I think Bruce had far more mess to take over than those 2, but thats just my view......It depends what the new 55% Owners want to do.

Fast track or gradual improvement.

Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

 

Fast track or gradual improvement.

Which one is Bruce ? 

( genuine question, since I could see how he fits both, or neither !).

I agree with most of your post, but it’s very rare for new owners to keep an existing Manager....I can’t see it, especially as it won’t be last years squad.

[TRO]

Just now, terrytini said:

Which one is Bruce ? 

( genuine question, since I could see how he fits both, or neither !).

I agree with most of your post, but it’s very rare for new owners to keep an existing Manager....I can’t see it, especially as it won’t be last years squad.

Terry, If we can get a better manager, I am all for it?

Its the IF bit that is the operative word.

Its ok getting fancy names....it does not necessarily constitute better.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Well if thats what it means, thats what it means.

Look, I have no problem a better manager coming in.....I have only defended him when ( I think) the criticism is unfair.

We haven't exactly been blessed with them over the last 10 years.

Please forgive me for being grateful for 24 wins last season..... 27 would have been the holy grail......"Throwing the baby our with the bath water" is a legitimate quote.

Warnock succeeded with his second try......Jokanovic succeeded with his second try......who is to say Bruce is not going to succeed with his third.

I think Bruce had far more mess to take over that those 2, but thats just my view......It depends what the new 55% Owners want to do.

Fast track or gradual improvement.

Don't want to keep going over old ground but you do not know that when Warnock came to Cardiff  they were below us and his job was to keep them up right? 

When Jovanoic came to Fulham they were 18th in the Championship.  He had just lead Watford to promotion but couldn't agree a new contract so left.

He not only saved them from relegation first season he got them in to the playoffs without bankrupting them and was able to spend another season to try get them promoted without spending more than 20 million in January on a squad that already cost 50+ million to assemble.  

I've no doubt at all had either manager taken over us when Bruce did we would be in the top flight now and probably not on the brink of bankruptcy. 

[Dave J]

4 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

"any evidence to the contrary to my belief, will be dismissed" 

reasonable, and predictable. 

Go on then - please tell me in  as many words that you so wish - how  Bruce is a better manager than Atkinson( my view played the best football I have ever seen at VP) Ron Saunders or Graham Taylor .

And I do remember the 77 side 

[terrytini]

Just now, TRO said:

Terry, If we can get a better manager, I am all for it?

Its the IF bit that is the operative word.

Its ok getting fancy names....it does not necessarily constitute better.

I suppose that partly depends on what you mean by “ better”.

Like all Managers, and all players, he has strengths and weaknesses. So do others. Lots of other Managers might do better. But might not. That’s the case for all Clubs, always, but it never prevents change ( nor shoukd it, really).

They will know their strategy, and they will judge whether he’s the best man to deliver. If we get a new guy it won’t be because he’s somehow “ better” but because he fits what they want. I suspect they will indeed want a new guy, and that Bruce goes next week.

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Don't want to keep going over old ground but you do not know that when Warnock came to Cardiff  they were below us and his job was to keep them up right? 

When Jovanoic came to Fulham they were 18th in the Championship.  He had just lead Watford to promotion but couldn't agree a new contract so left.

He not only saved them from relegation first season he got them in to the playoffs without bankrupting them and was able to spend another season to try get them promoted without spending more than 20 million in January on a squad that already cost 50+ million to assemble.  

I've no doubt at all had either manager taken over us when Bruce did we would be in the top flight now and probably not on the brink of bankruptcy. 

Totally agree with Paragraphs 1 - 3.

Nowhere near convinced about 4 though. Could be, but who knows ? 

Anyway as you say it is indeed very old ground and, I suspect, about to become history.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I would be happy with a better manager too. But again Steve Bruce is the most competent and all round professional manager we have had since MON. Yeah I know not a lot of competition but still, I would be worried about losing him until I knew the replacement.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Totally agree with Paragraphs 1 - 3.

Nowhere near convinced about 4 though. Could be, but who knows ? 

Anyway as you say it is indeed very old ground and, I suspect, about to become history.

Yeah I probably got a big carried away with paragraph 4 as we'll never know.  But Tro does seem to underplay both Warnock and Jovanivic's achievements a lot without it feels, knowing the facts about the clubs when both managers took over. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

I would be happy with a better manager too. But again Steve Bruce is the most competent and all round professional manager we have had since MON. Yeah I know not a lot of competition but still, I would be worried about losing him until I knew the replacement.

What did you think when Derby appointed Lampard ?

For myself, I half thought “ ha ha ha what a ludicrous idea, no experience, no track record, a disaster in waiting”........but i half thought “ I wish we could try something like that, take a bit of a gamble on a highly regarded ex pro”.

Additionally, who knows what will work ? Previous success is often no guide.

From our own history, you’d bet that Blues were delighted to get Saunders.....but suddenly “ right man, right place”, became “ wrong man, wrong place”.

Theres a lot of luck and casual alchemy to getting the “ right” Manager....I don’t think we shoukd fear change or the unknown.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Don't want to keep going over old ground but you do not know that when Warnock came to Cardiff  they were below us and his job was to keep them up right? 

When Jovanoic came to Fulham they were 18th in the Championship.  He had just lead Watford to promotion but couldn't agree a new contract so left.

He not only saved them from relegation first season he got them in to the playoffs without bankrupting them and was able to spend another season to try get them promoted without spending more than 20 million in January on a squad that already cost 50+ million to assemble.  

I've no doubt at all had either manager taken over us when Bruce did we would be in the top flight now and probably not on the brink of bankruptcy. 

don't want to go off topic, but Jokanovic was in 10th place in Jan 2018 in his second season.....He signed Mitrovic and it transformed the fortunes of Fulham going on that fantastic run......we signed Grabban and it didn't quite have the same impact.....its fine margins.

Warnock was lucky in the sense the type of players he had, fitted perfectly in to his DNA, it was a match made in heaven for him......They just needed that type of manager.

Ours was a car crash and a kaleidescope of many managers idea's that become a mixing bowl.....it required far more work physically and mentally to make any sort of sense of it.....We had been haemorrhaging goals for fun when he took over, it needed Red Adair not a football manager....we was heading for division one.

I have always championed Ron Saunders on this site, but even he had Vic Crowes kids and legacy to aid him.....This bloke had a cesspit to clear out.

ps The 50 million was not his doing so to bring that up when discussing him is disingenuous.....that was a club issue.....He has bought 1 dud really,that constitutes over 50% of his spending, bit harsh, don't you think.

Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO

[lapal_fan]

21 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Go on then - please tell me in  as many words that you so wish - how  Bruce is a better manager than Atkinson( my view played the best football I have ever seen at VP) Ron Saunders or Graham Taylor .

And I do remember the 77 side 

I don't particularly care for Steve Bruce, I think he's solid enough for this level, but you're dismissing a statistical fact - which is amusing and as I said, is entirely predictable. 

[DaveAV1]

10 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I don't particularly care for Steve Bruce, I think he's solid enough for this level, but you're dismissing a statistical fact - which is amusing and as I said, is entirely predictable. 

Ah statistics, the standard bearer for the truth.......