DaveAV1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I don't particularly care for Steve Bruce, I think he's solid enough for this level, but you're dismissing a statistical fact - which is amusing and as I said, is entirely predictable. Ah statistics, the standard bearer for the truth....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, Dave J said: Go on then - please tell me in as many words that you so wish - how Bruce is a better manager than Atkinson( my view played the best football I have ever seen at VP) Ron Saunders or Graham Taylor . And I do remember the 77 side Dave.....are you referring to his first 18 months or the second after Andy Gray left as his assistant. If you are referring to the first, I will agree. The second with Nil Lamptey and John Fashanu, I would rather forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Would love to know Bruce’s honest thoughts on this all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, terrytini said: What did you think when Derby appointed Lampard ? For myself, I half thought “ ha ha ha what a ludicrous idea, no experience, no track record, a disaster in waiting”........but i half thought “ I wish we could try something like that, take a bit of a gamble on a highly regarded ex pro”. Additionally, who knows what will work ? Previous success is often no guide. From our own history, you’d bet that Blues were delighted to get Saunders.....but suddenly “ right man, right place”, became “ wrong man, wrong place”. Theres a lot of luck and casual alchemy to getting the “ right” Manager....I don’t think we shoukd fear change or the unknown. I think Football is far more likely to do that, than business. I guess the prudent thing would be to say......what are we expecting better from the new guy, because it really means what Bruce has done plus.....as they say a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Its great to be swashbuckling and intrepid......but when it goes wrong, the tissues run out as we have just witnessed. I do actually, understand your position and am tempted to agree.....I know many things written about Bruce are not wrong.....I also understand that there are no guarantee's in football, but when teams like Man city or Spurs sign Guardiola and Pocchetino ,respectively.....they get closer to Guarantee's. Unless we can sign a manager that is universally viewed as better than Bruce, I would be tempted to stay with what we have, even if its just one season, because, stability is certainly not accomplished yet. Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, TRO said: Dave.....are you referring to his first 18 months or the second after Andy Gray left as his assistant. If you are referring to the first, I will agree. The second with Nil Lamptey and John Fashanu, I would rather forget. Dean Saunders, Shaun Teale, Earl Barratt, Kevin Richardson, Steve Staunton to name a few - wasn't Lamptey pretty much injured for most of his time here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave J said: Dean Saunders, Shaun Teale, Earl Barratt, Kevin Richardson, Steve Staunton to name a few - wasn't Lamptey pretty much injured for most of his time here ? I have not checked the stats but I seem to remember it all went pear shaped after Andy left......but like i said initially, great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, av1 said: If it's young and hungry we want , this fella is out of work That's unfair - I don't know of a single villa fan who was unhappy with his appointment - the club well and truly shafted him big style 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, TRO said: I have not checked the stats but I seem to remember it all went pear shaped after Andy left......but like i said initially, great. Andy Gray - what a player - manager/coach meh! That's why he chose the sky cash cow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dave J said: That's unfair - I don't know of a single villa fan who was unhappy with his appointment - the club well and truly shafted him big style Well, the club have arguably done that to quite a few, don't you think. He hasn't exactly moved on and proved the club wrong has he? Unless every club he works for, shafts him?.....In which case, he would be quite susceptible to the shaft. ps Judging by his pad in Four Oaks, I wish I could be shafted like him.....fit for a film star. Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, TRO said: I think he can. He had a vision for last season and it nearly worked.....I was not in favour totally, but felt it was worth a try....I could see flaws, but maybe he could too I think our stamina an energy was in question at times and in an effort to stay with experience, I think he made some errors. Its without doubt, his opinion of the weight of expectation influenced his approach.....I think he will have learned something from that, plus the younger lads will be 12 months more experienced and developed. I can't second guess what the new owners thoughts are, but I would suspect they will favour gradual change as opposed to wholesale change.....but thats just my guess. I think Steve Bruce will be given one more season. I could be wrong, but I think Bruce works with what he has......you can't by player A for 5 Mill if you only have 2.5 mill you have to settle for player B. I think it is fair comment, to say Bruce is too cautious at times, but I think some mangers are too gungho too......its the balance that is tricky. For me, if I was building a side in this league and knowing big money transfer fee's are the quickest way out of the job, if they fail to materialise.....I would go for the 3 x P's Power/Pace/Presence. that would be my criteria to get out of this league. " One more season ", now where have I heard that before ? As for " too gungho " , it didn't do Wolves much harm last season, in fact, they won the league by a country mile. And where's the evidence that Bruce can or will, rid himself of the cautious approach, which, lest we forget, was the reason we failed to get promoted ? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, DaveAV1 said: 49 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Sorry techno cock up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: " One more season ", now where have I heard that before ? As for " too gungho " , it didn't do Wolves much harm last season, in fact, they won the league by a country mile. And where's the evidence that Bruce can or will, rid himself of the cautious approach, which, lest we forget, was the reason we failed to get promoted ? Bruce will never change in my view - he is limited and in my view is reflected in how his teams set up - yes from time to time he spikes and will take a team to around 10th but this is the exception and not the rule again in my view Edited July 20, 2018 by Dave J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) Steve Bruce isn’t about to change his style, he has been the same throughout his career. If the new owners are happy with that, or feel they need a settling in period before making a big decision then he will stay. If he stays he will undoubtedly have to cut his cloth, ffp won’t disappear overnight no matter how much money our new owners have. It depends, to some extent, on what they feel is achievable this season and of course if they already have a replacement in mind/lined up. Edited July 20, 2018 by DaveAV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, DaveAV1 said: Steve Bruce isn’t about to change his style, he has been the same throughout his career. If the new owners are happy with that, or feel they need a settling in period before making a big decision then he will stay. If he stays will undoubtedly have to cut his cloth, ffp won’t disappear overnight no matter how much money our new owners have. It depends, to some extent, on what they feel is achievable this season and of course if they already have a replacement in mind/lined up. It's not really known if either of the new owners know anything about football, or if they have someone lined up who does, so it's all a bit up in the air. It seems sensible to just keep Bruce IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Dave J said: That's unfair - I don't know of a single villa fan who was unhappy with his appointment - the club well and truly shafted him big style To be fair Dave, I don't know of a single fan that was unhappy about Dr Xia buying the club from Lerner, and look how that turned out.. Lambert was shafted, so was Remi Garde, but that doesn't completely excuse the poor job they did. Lambert (imo) was crap, irrelevant of the constraints. His career after us also suggests that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, sharkyvilla said: It's not really known if either of the new owners know anything about football, or if they have someone lined up who does, so it's all a bit up in the air. It seems sensible to just keep Bruce IMO. I would think, having lived in the UK for a good few years now, that Sawiris knows a bit,. The last owner we had who based here was Herbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: " One more season ", now where have I heard that before ? As for " too gungho " , it didn't do Wolves much harm last season, in fact, they won the league by a country mile. And where's the evidence that Bruce can or will, rid himself of the cautious approach, which, lest we forget, was the reason we failed to get promoted ? Wolves conceded 39 goals all season in the league............hardly Gungho. They had players with far better ball control and movement than ours, hence their domination of the league. Rightly or wrongly Bruce has a view of the ability of his players, that will influence him how they set up and play.....You either agree with that set up or you don't......I can call on games during last season where, I can see your point, but I am not responsible for results when the contrary option is employed and we lose.....I have my view on our players, that may not agree with your view or his view. We scored 72 goals, we conceded 42.......Hardly a depiction of caution over a season. We conceded less than Fulham and scored More than Cardiff......We didn't go up because we didn't win enough games. It can be argued that problem was mainly at the start of the season, when the new players had not yet bedded in from the previous seasons transition, despite us losing our talisman. Sheepy, despite your stance and it does have merit.....we were close.....very close. ps anyway, we have done this to death.....its what the new owners think now. Edited July 20, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, TRO said: Dave.....are you referring to his first 18 months or the second after Andy Gray left as his assistant. Gray left Villa in 92 to work for Sky, we came second and won a cup after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dave J said: Bruce will never change in my view - he is limited and in my view is reflected in how his teams set up - yes from time to time he spikes and will take a team to around 10th but this is the exception and not the rule again in my view What we need is a manager who wants his team to play with the attitude of " fortune favors the brave ". Who that maybe, I don't know, but what I do know, it ain't Steve Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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