Steve Bruce

[sne]

3 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Indeed , there are several players who need to take a bloody hard look at their contribution too .

And the people who handle the recruitment at the club.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

But TRO - we can go around and around with this - whether you accept it or not the very bottom line is that the buck stops four square at his door. You may not like or agree with this - but it's always been this way.

for me I will try to be a little more specific rather than just toss out a well worn phrase. We are way to inconsistent for a team that carries more than a reasonable amount of experience and I'm afraid this can only be the responsibility of one man imo 

Dave, I have already said this......I understand that is the nature of the beast....irrespective of what I think.

Yes we are way too inconsistent for the experience we have.....but even the prem lads with the exception of John Terry was not really plying their trade in the upper half of the Premier League, were they?

Maybe  we overrate them....just saying.....maybe it is the manager.....its a forum, where we debate.

"Consistency" for me is an integral part of how good a player you really are.....its part of the good player appraisal......you say its all down to SB, I am not so convinced.....However, I would not say he does not have a part to play either.....for those that say, I deflect every bit of criticism is wide of the mark....only if it doesn't stack up or just mud slinging.

How many players go to different clubs with different managers and play different styles .........but maintain their form.....plenty....but equally some don't.

You accuse me of over defending Bruce, but by ommission you dismiss the responsibilty of the player to perform.

The debate inevitably will go round and round in circles, because we disagree on this point......don't forget Dave there is plenty we do agree on.

[Eastie]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

And the people who handle the recruitment at the club.

Could also be argued xia and wyness as without the appointment of Rdm and the money wasted could have been so much better - there are many to blame for where we are now including Steve  Bruce 

[a m ole]

I do wonder - what would constitute him doing;

A. A great job

B. A good job

C. An OK job

D. A bad job

E. An awful job.

There doesn’t seem much room for error.

I’d have him at C right now.

[Eastie]

Just now, a m ole said:

I do wonder - what would constitute him doing;

A. A great job

B. A good job

C. An OK job

D. A bad job

E. An awful job.

There doesn’t seem much room for error.

I’d have him at C right now.

I’d agree at C but he wasn’t brought in to do an ok job - he was brought to attain promotion and al]nything less than that will be failure for me .

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

By anyone i mean anyone. Numerous players, questioning ability and desire but rarely question the coaching and tactics they receive. And i don't think you will ever accept a convincing argument, for some reason you've decided bruce is basically bullet proof when it comes to criticism and blame, there is no point trying to convince you. 

If we fail to go up with this squad there is no one else to blame but the manager. 

sadly, thats your opinion and I respectfully accept it.....but it is not true from where I sit.

I am a million miles away from happy, with the last 3 games and I guess you and everyone else on here feels the same.

but if the fans feel that a manager is not up to it or no good for us, they will protest accordingly, like we have done in the past.....we can be very noisy, when we are convinced all is not well.

If you go back over the 12 years I have written on here,  there is no testimony to me idling defending managers, I have had my moments when I have been vociferous against them.....I don't feel that way with Steve Bruce at the moment.

Who knows, I may see something in the future that convinces me.....and I will be the first to let you know.

Edited April 3, 2018 by TRO

[Eastie]

Just now, TRO said:

sadly, thats your opinion and I respectfully accept it.....but it is not true from where I sit.

I am a million miles away from happy, with the last 3 games and I guess you and everyone else on here feels the same.

but if the fans feel that a manager is not up to it or no good for us, they will protest accordingly, like we have done in the past.

If you go back over the 12 years I have written on here, I there is no testimony to me idling defending managers, I have had my moments when I have been vociferous against them.....I don't feel that was with Steve Bruce.

Who knows, I may see something in the future that convinces me.....and I will be the first to let you know.

You did feel he had to go in December though you old rascal

[sne]

I've mentioned this countless times.

But for me the way to get consistency is to have a set and very clear tactic and way of playing that you drill into the players until they know it in their sleep.

And then you try and sign players who fit into said system/adjust the system to fit the players at your disposal.

This will naturally not work all the time, and will have to be adjusted in certain situations. But it is THE way of ensuring you get the best out of your players.

It is also a way to make even inferior players perform better as a group.

Hard work, attitude, raw talent, luck and a 1000 other things also wins you games.

But over time it is essential.

This is where I feel Bruce and his backroom team has failed. 

 

[DCJonah]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Bruce isn’t bulletproof at all - but he’s also not the ONLY PERSON TO BLAME. The truth is in the middle. 

If we fail to go up over a 46 game season, then to me he is. 

[TRO]

Just now, Eastie said:

You did feel he had to go in December though you old rascal

I did have a wobble Eastie and I think I did say around the time I was ashamed of myself.

We can't sensibly appraise a true managers worth on a short burst of results or form.....it has to be over a reasonable period of time.

ps you watch we lose tonight and my heart will rule my head.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

I've mentioned this countless times.

But for me the way to get consistency is to have a set and very clear tactic and way of playing that you drill into the players until they know it in their sleep.

And then you try and sign players who fit into said system/adjust the system to fit the players at your disposal.

This will naturally not work all the time, and will have to be adjusted in certain situations. But it is THE way of ensuring you get the best out of your players.

It is also a way to make even inferior players perform better as a group.

Hard work, attitude, raw talent, luck and a 1000 other things also wins you games.

But over time it is essential.

This is where I feel Bruce and his backroom team has failed. 

 

Fair play, for being specific.....I am not going to say that is wrong, because it is all feasible.

But if was all that simple they would all be winning the league......players are human, they don't always respond how you want them to.

Pogba.....Mourinho?

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I did have a wobble Eastie and I think I did say around the time I was ashamed of myself.

We can't sensibly appraise a true managers worth on a short burst of results or form.....it has to be over a reasonable period of time.

ps you watch we lose tonight and my heart will rule my head.

Would nearly 2 years not be a reasonable period of time?

What if Xia sacks him if we fail to go up? Will you judge xia for making that decision?

[a m ole]

14 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I’d agree at C but he wasn’t brought in to do an ok job - he was brought to attain promotion and al]nything less than that will be failure for me .

I agree, but we’ll have to wait for that outcome!

[sne]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Fair play, for being specific.....I am not going to say that is wrong, because it is all feasible.

But if was all that simple they would all be winning the league......players are human, they don't always respond how you want them to.

Pogba.....Mourinho?

Oh, no one is saying it's simple.

As for Pogba he is a ginormous man-child in the same mold as Ballotelli and I don't see the problem there being him not having a tactic to follow or a role to play in. (Although I don't think Mou has deployed him in the best way)

[jim]

48 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

but to say "shit manager"......"hasn't got a scoobie."...."has to go"....etc,etc,etc........what the **** does all that mean?

He's shit, he hasn't got a clue and he has to go! 

[villa89]

2 hours ago, a m ole said:

I do wonder - what would constitute him doing;

A. A great job

B. A good job

C. An OK job

D. A bad job

E. An awful job.

There doesn’t seem much room for error.

I’d have him at C right now.

It's a D for me. He's going to come up about 10-15 points short of where he should have us. The frustration is that his failings were obvious from the start and nothing has changed. That's why he gets so much criticism because it seems as though everyone can see the problem except him. Or maybe he can see it but doesn't know how to fix it.

[villa89]

2 hours ago, sne said:

I've mentioned this countless times.

But for me the way to get consistency is to have a set and very clear tactic and way of playing that you drill into the players until they know it in their sleep.

And then you try and sign players who fit into said system/adjust the system to fit the players at your disposal.

This will naturally not work all the time, and will have to be adjusted in certain situations. But it is THE way of ensuring you get the best out of your players.

It is also a way to make even inferior players perform better as a group.

I agree with this but I would suggest that when you have a big budget and the biggest wage bill in the league then your tactic/system should involve keeping the bloody ball and looking to control most games you play. Not hoofball 101.

Edited April 3, 2018 by villa89

[mykeyb]

Well it looks like Bruce out thought Paul Clement then.........if only the players could have put a shift in

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

If we fail to go up over a 46 game season, then to me he is. 

How strongly do you rate our squad?

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

How strongly do you rate our squad?

I think it's one of the strongest in the league. Full of players the vast majority of teams in this league would love to have.