Steve Bruce

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Me too , he’s like a Comfy old pair of furry slippers

I've got some of them.....i'll be wearing them tomorrow night v Reading

[TRO]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

When you have the means as manager (resources/stature of club) to put together the best squad in the league then I'd take all those things you mention as pretty much a given.

I got to be honest I don't really see a lack of fight from us. I think the lone front man whoever that is always puts a shift in, I think in Snodgrass and Adomah we have two of the hardest working wide me around as they will track back and put a foot in, I think Grealish for an attacking midfielder is now happy to get back and stick a tackle in. Elmo, Hutton, Tuanzebe, Taylor as fullbacks will work their bollocks off up and down and no one would question Chester and Terry for fight and desire. We also have some excellent leaders in the squad in Terry, Chester, Whelan and Jedinak and Hourihane was captain of Barnsley.

I think the issue of players making the right runs and using the ball well enough is a valid one. They are clearly capable as they have shown it but in some games I think things just don't come off. On Saturday in the first half we got into some great situations and the final ball or the decision on who to play in let us down. It is about such fine margins isn't it and you have to give praise for creating the initial opening whilst criticising the final ball or decision.

I honestly can't pin point why we are so inconsistent but I don't think it is down to the attitude of the players. I think the squad as a lot of ability and plenty of character and desire. Whilst I rate Bruce I think tactically he is found wanting. I think that has been shown perfectly by the best answer he could come up with in the last two games to get us a goal was to throw every forward on which predictably led us to having no grasp on the midfield and lacking creativity. He has also on a number of occasions been way too defensive and cautious. That overly cautious approach is though unfortunately part of his DNA.

I am loathe to get too much into all this to be honest with so much still to be decided. We go up and I will hail Bruce a hero as he would have put a good enough squad together and got enough out of them to achieve the aim. If we don't go up then depending on your view point he will either have failed to put a good enough squad together or not getting enough out of them. Whichever way it is on the manager for me.

He could have been forgiven for being cautious against Wolves and Bristol City.

not so.....Nah, its something else Mark......and I have seen him waving the players forward on many occasions.

its more about losing ground and duels and players coming to the rescue and subsequently losing shape....but hey ho.

Edited April 2, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

Was quite impressed with Sheff Utd tonight, played with fizz and a sharpness that upset Cardiff.....deserved more, moved the ball well.

They were unlucky, hitting the post and conceding in injury time.

I have to laugh, Warnock is a seasoned campaigner, driving them on and pushing Bamba up with Madine, it was like land of the giants, the tactic clearly was create chaos in the box and sure enough Pilkington seizes the knock down....you could sense it coming.

thing is Cardiff along with Fulham are past masters at scoring in the last 5 minutes, i guess it was predictable, they threw the kitchen sink at it.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

8 promotions on his CV 

On par, i would say.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, andym said:

But TRO our team is full of players who are proven quality in this league or are known as proven consistent types.

Terry, Chester, Jedinak etc even the likes of hutton, whelan and elmo are known as solid consistent and experienced characters of the type you are on about.

Then you have a front 4 of Grabban, Grealish, Adomah and Snodgrass - name me a side other than Wolves than can name that kind of attacking strength.

If it was tight at the top people would be less bothered, but we are 9 points off 2nd and 15 from the top. That is a huge gap and not good enough with the players we have!

Not arguing with what you say......but where's the engine room, the middle of the park.

Whelan has been injured and i was happy to sign him.....but was he dominating his position before he went out the side....is Jed as dominant as he can be and he now resembles a wildebeest with a lion on his back.....he is ponderous, his legs have gone....Lansbury is nondescript and Hourihane blows hot and cold and struggles to keep control despite some brilliant strikes.....wheres our Tom Cairney.

 

[Dave J]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not arguing with what you say......but where's the engine room, the middle of the park.

Whelan has been injured and i was happy to sign him.....but was he dominating his position before he went out the side....is Jed as dominant as he can be and he now resembles a wildebeest with a lion on his back.....he is ponderous, his legs have gone....Lansbury is nondescript and Hourihane blows hot and cold and struggles to keep control despite some brilliant strikes.....wheres our Tom Cairney.

 

Maybe ask SB ? Once again TRO and I have much respect for you - you appear to not so much absolve SB of blame - but you certainly appear to be happy to funnel it in the players direction  - I know from your posts you have followed the game for many many years and you know that the buck stops with the manager 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Dave J said:

Maybe ask SB ? Once again TRO and I have much respect for you - you appear to not so much absolve SB of blame - but you certainly appear to be happy to funnel it in the players direction  - I know from your posts you have followed the game for many many years and you know that the buck stops with the manager 

Dave......He is responsible, I don't know how many times I have written this, but some posters, don't seem get that I have accepted it.....but like all folk, they are good at some things or are at fault for somethings, but not necessarily all.

• I accept he has bought the players so they are his responsibilty....there is elements of mitigation to say, maybe they wasn't his first choices, but maybe they was too( element of uncertainty there), maybe that all he could get with the money available....lots of maybe's
• When they cross that white line its the players I look at.......e.g If I go to Marks and Spencers and the staff Serving me is rude, I blame Them, not the MD or Marks and Spencers.....The MD is responsible, but that is different ,to blame......its indirect blame, not direct blame.
• If and I emphasis IF, he has bought too many players short of crucial attributes, its his problem for recruiting them, but not his fault for the way they play, directly......indirectly yes....but they can't just duck their responsibility either a shit performance is not acceptable.

I have said many times on here to be fair.....I am not defending him unconditionally, I am just searching for convincing arguments to prove he is not up to it.......I see all the things that are wrong, not convinced he is DIRECTLY at fault for them all.

If you and many others are saying, He bought them, they are playing shit, can't tackle, don't run off the ball, can't pass, can,t score goals, look leggy, no pace......so its his fault, then I know why you are frustrated with my view.

as a point to ponder.....Jose Mourinho ( one of the best managers around) can't get a tune out of Pogba.....He spent c100 mill in securing him( don't know exactly, but irrelevant, huge sum is my point).....when asked whats gone wrong with him, he said " I don't know, ask him" and it wasn't said with arrogance, he looked like he genuinely didn't know.

I have said this many, many times....yes the Manager is responsible for the players.....but when they can't trap a ball or are having a mare ( Like Baath against us) the manager can't play for them. He can only change them.

You can take the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

I am not trying to get you to agree with me....its yours or everyone else's call.....just trying to explain the way I see it.

ps Please Dave, when you read this see how many times I have said SB is responsible, but things in life are not just black and white....my point is there are other elements and factors too.

Edited April 3, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Dave J said:

Maybe ask SB ? Once again TRO and I have much respect for you - you appear to not so much absolve SB of blame - but you certainly appear to be happy to funnel it in the players direction  - I know from your posts you have followed the game for many many years and you know that the buck stops with the manager 

Yes I most certainly do.....and the foolish sacking of Tony Barton all those years ago is a stark reminder of not "throwing the baby out with the bath water"

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Dave J said:

Maybe ask SB ? Once again TRO and I have much respect for you - you appear to not so much absolve SB of blame - but you certainly appear to be happy to funnel it in the players direction  - I know from your posts you have followed the game for many many years and you know that the buck stops with the manager 

Dave, you say that but the opposing argument ( that seems to only come out when we lose and other time the powder is kept dry)....seems to blame him for every mortal thing.

If the floodlights failed some would blame Steve Bruce.

Personally, I don't think many managers who get the sack are rubbish, But I do get why its done....doesn't mean I agree with it.

It tickles me pink how a 70 Year old man who has had more clubs than Jack Nickalas, that any discerning fan wouldn't touch with a ten foot barge pole is sitting in the second spot in a promotion race.....this bloke hasn't got a clue by the way, in some quarters.

They are all too much of any easy target, for football to give vent to its emotions.

[Dodgyknees]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

Dave, you say that but the opposing argument ( that seems to only come out when we lose and other time the powder is kept dry)....seems to blame him for every mortal thing.

If the floodlights failed some would blame Steve Bruce.

Personally, I don't think many managers who get the sack are rubbish, But I do get why its done....doesn't mean I agree with it.

It tickles me pink how a 70 Year old man who has had more clubs than Jack Nickalas, that any discerning fan wouldn't touch with a ten foot barge pole is sitting in the second spot in a promotion race.....this bloke hasn't got a clue by the way, in some quarters.

They are all too much of any easy target, for football to give vent to its emotions.

No.

[Dodgyknees]

It's really good misdirection though, Bruce is failing to point at something shiny and shout really loud. 

[DCJonah]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

He could have been forgiven for being cautious against Wolves and Bristol City.

not so.....Nah, its something else Mark......and I have seen him waving the players forward on many occasions.

its more about losing ground and duels and players coming to the rescue and subsequently losing shape....but hey ho.

When will it be his fault? You seem to really go out of your way to place blame on anyone but the manager. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

When will it be his fault? You seem to really go out of your way to place blame on anyone but the manager. 

When you provide a stronger argument or a convincing one.... imo

anyone?.....who is anyone?, be specific, don't deal in generalisations.

blame is not a word that sits comfortable with me.....its too negative.

I will go out of my way to defend anyone if I think the critcism is convenient or unconvincing or just too general to take seriously or counter.

We have problems, we can all see that.....what has not been established with any feasibility in my view is why?

[Eastie]

Tro - I know you say maybe whelan , lansbury etc are all he could get for the money - but in that case the obvious statement is why spend £20m almost on hogan and Bree neither who have played much and not spend more on a decent midfielder?

Edited April 3, 2018 by Eastie

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

When you provide a stronger argument or a convincing one.... imo

anyone?.....who is anyone?, be specific, don't deal in generalisations.

blame is not a word that sits comfortable with me.....its too negative.

I will go out of my way to defend anyone if I think the critcism is convenient or unconvincing or just too general to take seriously or counter.

We have problems, we can all see that.....what has not been established with any feasibility in my view is why?

But TRO - we can go around and around with this - whether you accept it or not the very bottom line is that the buck stops four square at his door. You may not like or agree with this - but it's always been this way.

for me I will try to be a little more specific rather than just toss out a well worn phrase. We are way to inconsistent for a team that carries more than a reasonable amount of experience and I'm afraid this can only be the responsibility of one man imo 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

When will it be his fault? You seem to really go out of your way to place blame on anyone but the manager. 

Lets take an example.

• He signs a player that is not effective or dominant.....providing he chose him....... his fault.
• He takes a player off and the one that comes on is worse......His fault.
• A player consistently plays poor in a certain aspect of his game and he continues to play him, week in week out..... His fault
• We continuously take corners and fail to score from oodles and oodles of corners, week in week out.....His Fault.

There, I've said it.

All I have been saying is criticize him by all means, but be explicit of what the criticism is so folk can agree or disagree.

but to say "shit manager"......"hasn't got a scoobie."...."has to go"....etc,etc,etc........what the **** does all that mean?

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

When you provide a stronger argument or a convincing one.... imo

anyone?.....who is anyone?, be specific, don't deal in generalisations.

blame is not a word that sits comfortable with me.....its too negative.

I will go out of my way to defend anyone if I think the critcism is convenient or unconvincing or just too general to take seriously or counter.

We have problems, we can all see that.....what has not been established with any feasibility in my view is why?

By anyone i mean anyone. Numerous players, questioning ability and desire but rarely question the coaching and tactics they receive. And i don't think you will ever accept a convincing argument, for some reason you've decided bruce is basically bullet proof when it comes to criticism and blame, there is no point trying to convince you. 

If we fail to go up with this squad there is no one else to blame but the manager. 

[Eastie]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

By anyone i mean anyone. Numerous players, questioning ability and desire but rarely question the coaching and tactics they receive. And i don't think you will ever accept a convincing argument, for some reason you've decided bruce is basically bullet proof when it comes to criticism and blame, there is no point trying to convince you. 

If we fail to go up with this squad there is no one else to blame but the manager. 

If we fail to go up then the blame can be targeted at several people not just steve Bruce but I agree he would be more culpable than others as manager .

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

By anyone i mean anyone. Numerous players, questioning ability and desire but rarely question the coaching and tactics they receive. And i don't think you will ever accept a convincing argument, for some reason you've decided bruce is basically bullet proof when it comes to criticism and blame, there is no point trying to convince you. 

If we fail to go up with this squad there is no one else to blame but the manager. 

Bruce isn’t bulletproof at all - but he’s also not the ONLY PERSON TO BLAME. The truth is in the middle. 

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Bruce isn’t bulletproof at all - but he’s also not the ONLY PERSON TO BLAME. The truth is in the middle. 

Indeed , there are several players who need to take a bloody hard look at their contribution too .