srsmithusa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, hippo said: Don't understand , 3pts is 3pt - you don't get anymore for playing convincingly. So how we accumulate those 3pts has no bearing on if we make the play offs or automatic promotion. We didn't play well against Shef W and lost - on that basis there seemed little hope of us going to QPR and coming away with all 3 points but we did. We didn't play well against sunderland - does that mean we won't beat ipswich ? - with us only having lost 1 at home all season. Which is a positive spin on a major concern. Our results are much improved (belatedly IMO) but we are still frighteningly inconsistent. Sometimes we show up to compete, sometimes we show up merely to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Which is a positive spin on a major concern. Our results are much improved (belatedly IMO) but we are still frighteningly inconsistent. Sometimes we show up to compete, sometimes we show up merely to play. Apart from Man City (atm) and maybe PSG, who and in what league is anybody playing consistently well? Madrid aren't and they won the CL last season. It's an absolute myth that good teams play well all the time. It just doesn't work. Unless you spend an incredible amount of money, for the best players. We're in the 2nd tier of English football - we don't have access to those players. We bought players who played well elsewhere, and the majority of them look to be doing a good job to me. But they are STILL second division football players - of course they're going to be inconsistent, otherwise, they'd probably be playing for.. well, you can fill the rest.. All this "it's not good enough to play badly an win" rhetoric is nonsensical to me. Yes, we've spent a lot compared to other teams in this division, but they will try and make life hard for us. We're still a big team (in relative terms) compared to them. They will want to take points off us, and to be honest, I think bar a couple of awful performances, we're actually doing well! Yes, we're 5th or whatever, but there's still so many points to play for, and at the minute, we're getting the majority of the points available - so where is the panic? And if it's the financing thing you're annoyed about (or others), then how on Earth did Man Utd lose to Basel last night? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Which is a positive spin on a major concern. Our results are much improved (belatedly IMO) but we are still frighteningly inconsistent. Sometimes we show up to compete, sometimes we show up merely to play. For a little grounding in reality - I was chatting to a couple of Wolves fans about this on my way up to Brum a few weeks back, they had just lost at QPR. They said they rarely dominated games and relied too much on big moments rather than fully rounded performances to win, that it was about to bite them. Here they are 4 weeks and 4 wins later, 5 points clear at the top of the league. The truth is that as fans we are always far more likely than any outsider to look to pull apart our performances, bore into the detail. When I watch another team play, any team, it's rare I go to that length. I'm more likely to notice the stand out performer and those big moments, just as people are doing with Wolves now. I bet that's how people on the outside view us, simply as a club on the up getting results. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I guess an interesting question might be - When was the last time we were winning consistently enough to know what it should look like? I remember the exact same complaints under O'Neill, O'Leary and Gregory. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 23, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: This thread man It's just round and round of "well if we get points off X, but not Y, but they lose points at Z, then we either will or won't go up" It's talking for talkings sake. Nothing new has come out. We need to win, and keep winning. Don't worry about who we will or won't beat. As long as we get more points than others at the end of the season, does it really matter where those points came from (or not?). Where is the fun in analysing if we beat everyone below us, but no one above us and the potential outcome? It doesn't do anything, and football doesn't behave that way. If it was as binary as some are making out, I wouldn't be bothered about football! What am I missing here? The binary nature of this thread is what makes it so infuriating. If you don't hate everything Bruce ever does then half the posters here claim you defend Bruce at every opportunity. And if you don't like everything Bruce does then half the posters here say you slate him at every opportunity. (and no I don't mean literally half and half ) Most of us just sit in the middle of the opinion that we're doing pretty well. Probably not as well as we should be doing, but pretty well and getting better. Anything that logical gets lost in the melee, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Grasshopper said: We can only afford to „lose“ pts to direct competitors (top 10) if we better enough of them at taking more pts off the rest in the league. Its possible, but risky. too risky for my liking. It would be benefitial all round, debate on here, our nerves, our enjoyment, if we could simply beat enough teams and comfortably when possible looking convincing in 1st or 2nd, Instead the debate seems to be driven by whats acceptable for individuals. Why bother with the playoffs when we can just go straight up? What is the benefit of flying by the seat of our pants every week counting on IFs & IFnots if we make 2nd and above or 3rd-6th? Why stop there? Why don't we try to win the Premier League and Champions league too, in fact why even bother with settling for that, that's what losers do. Winners like us should be aiming to win the World Cup, anything less is total failure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If ya'll disagree and think our performances resemble consistency in our desire to compete (which is what I posted) feel free. I'm not talking about consistency in the form of dominating every game or even a consistent game plan. My post clearly said that sometimes we show up to compete, other times we show up merely to play. When I recently missed a match and we played well, I asked on VT what it was that caused the improved performance. Every response (3 or 4) said in so many words "we showed up with confidence and prepared to compete." It seems reasonable that those posters (like me) had observed a lack of that approach in previous matches. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 hours ago, srsmithusa said: Thanks for the reminder. I forgot I have whatever it’s called. You win 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: If ya'll disagree and think our performances resemble consistency in our desire to compete (which is what I posted) feel free. I'm not talking about consistency in the form of dominating every game or even a consistent game plan. My post clearly said that sometimes we show up to compete, other times we show up merely to play. When I recently missed a match and we played well, I asked on VT what it was that caused the improved performance. Every response (3 or 4) said in so many words "we showed up with confidence and prepared to compete." It seems reasonable that those posters (like me) had observed a lack of that approach in previous matches. You make it sound as though it's intentional? Like some games Bruce is sending them out there to lose, we're talking about a bunch of human beings, they're subject to all manner of variables which may or may not effect their performance. Take for example the past week, we were excellent against QPR and very average against Sunderland, looking beyond the black and white it's not hard to work out why. We put a massive shift in against QPR, pressing them at every opportunity, we then played a few days later and unsurprisingly didn't have the same energy levels given that we used the same 11 players (largely due to injuries and players returning to fitness) - this was highlighted in particular by Davis' inability to make the ball stick. This will happen, maybe I'm too accepting of it, maybe you're too unaccepting of it, I don't know but for me, the telling thing right now is that we managed to win both games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: You make it sound as though it's intentional? Like some games Bruce is sending them out there to lose, we're talking about a bunch of human beings, they're subject to all manner of variables which may or may not effect their performance. Take for example the past week, we were excellent against QPR and very average against Sunderland, looking beyond the black and white it's not hard to work out why. We put a massive shift in against QPR, pressing them at every opportunity, we then played a few days later and unsurprisingly didn't have the same energy levels given that we used the same 11 players (largely due to injuries and players returning to fitness) - this was highlighted in particular by Davis' inability to make the ball stick. This will happen, maybe I'm too accepting of it, maybe you're too unaccepting of it, I don't know but for me, the telling thing right now is that we managed to win both games. Tiredness was definitely a factor for Davis. He looked shattered. Lookiny at Ipswichs lineups they only made one change yesterday from Saturdays game. We've also had an extra days rest. Hopefully fatigue won't be an issue on Saturday as I could see Bruce picking the same team again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: You make it sound as though it's intentional? Like some games Bruce is sending them out there to lose, we're talking about a bunch of human beings, they're subject to all manner of variables which may or may not effect their performance. Take for example the past week, we were excellent against QPR and very average against Sunderland, looking beyond the black and white it's not hard to work out why. We put a massive shift in against QPR, pressing them at every opportunity, we then played a few days later and unsurprisingly didn't have the same energy levels given that we used the same 11 players (largely due to injuries and players returning to fitness) - this was highlighted in particular by Davis' inability to make the ball stick. This will happen, maybe I'm too accepting of it, maybe you're too unaccepting of it, I don't know but for me, the telling thing right now is that we managed to win both games. Why in heavens name would you read intention into it? I didn’t say that. I’ll accept your two match explanation but the problem has been evident for much longer than two matches. If players are too tired to put in the effort to compete for every ball, why would you start them? EFL matches come quickly but they come at a pretty steady pace all year long and a pretty similar pace for everybody. It’s part of the league and we should be able to cope. FWIW, it’s another thing that bothers me, but it’s also another thing I think is improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted November 23, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 23/11/2017 at 04:12, bannedfromHandV said: Perhaps I do, but I guess it's how you view the impact or potential impact of what's written on here. I guess some people post and don't give a seconds thought to it whereas I see the potential for influence. If all we keep doing is being negative that may seep into the wider fan base, which then may seep back into the club/team and affect performances and results. For every action there is a reaction and all that. So talking about blowing your brains out over this thread isn't negative. I'm guessing the same few seconds was put into your post. Really not something you should joke about! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Why stop there? Why don't we try to win the Premier League and Champions league too, in fact why even bother with settling for that, that's what losers do. Winners like us should be aiming to win the World Cup, anything less is total failure. what on earth are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post London Villa Posted November 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2017 9 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's a results business. Aside from VT where it's results, performances, goals scored, chances created, tackles made and what colour tie Bruce wears All right, but apart from the results, the league position, the resilience, the winning away, the clean sheets, the fight, the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what has Steve Bruce ever done for us? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, London Villa said: All right, but apart from the results, the league position, the resilience, the winning away, the clean sheets, the fight, the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what has Steve Bruce ever done for us? And yet we still aren't on course for the club's summer target And our results against the top teams doesn't fill me with lots of confidence with playoff success. Things have improved, things are better and the form is very good. But he has one target to achieve this year or he's completely failed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I've been spending so much time on this thread lately I can't wait for us to play our next 5 games so we can at least conclude the 'we are poor against better teams' argument which seems to have around a hundred posts a day! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, srsmithusa said: If ya'll disagree and think our performances resemble consistency in our desire to compete (which is what I posted) feel free. I'm not talking about consistency in the form of dominating every game or even a consistent game plan. My post clearly said that sometimes we show up to compete, other times we show up merely to play. When I recently missed a match and we played well, I asked on VT what it was that caused the improved performance. Every response (3 or 4) said in so many words "we showed up with confidence and prepared to compete." It seems reasonable that those posters (like me) had observed a lack of that approach in previous matches. I'm ok with merely to show up to play if we keep winning. Its a sign of a good team right? Play badly but still win. I saw Newcastle do it in many games last season. Thats the key difference to last season where we would play badly and lose and sometimes even play well and lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I'm ok with merely to show up to play if we keep winning. Its a sign of a good team right? Play badly but still win. I saw Newcastle do it in many games last season. Thats the key difference to last season where we would play badly and lose and sometimes even play well and lose! Except those aren’t the matches we’ve been winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Except those aren’t the matches we’ve been winning. Sunderland, Forest and Bolton kind of were. We didn't play well them games but won. We would have drew them games last season. Wolves we got totally outplayed. Shef Wed we had a lot of bad luck. Cardiff and Reading we were a disgrace but that was early doors. It's why the next 4-5 games will show us how far we have come. Edited November 23, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: And yet we still aren't on course for the club's summer target And our results against the top teams doesn't fill me with lots of confidence with playoff success. Things have improved, things are better and the form is very good. But he has one target to achieve this year or he's completely failed. I think you missed the joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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