vreitti Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, bobzy said: Well, yeah - every team probably should aspire to be filled with world class players who create amazing opportunities which are tucked away maybe 75% of the time. It's not going to happen. In our game against Fulham, where people are complaining we didn't attack enough and kill off the game, we had 15 shots. In Man City's win against Burnley where they were the perfect team, killing off the game and winning 3-0, they had 15 shots. If we had the class of player they do, we'd be comfortably done and dusted by half-time. It's not that simple and you know it. Also it's not just about money either. You think Guardiola is just picking a first eleven and telling them " well boys, just go out there and enjoy yourselves..."? There is a reason you know why KdB is always the one intercepting 'a loose pass', and subsequently making the crucial forward pass in order for Aguero, Jesus or whoever to tap in. TBH I wholeheartedly despise Man City, but that doesn't mean I'm blind, and don't recognise their extremely thought-out and classy system, with which they break down their opponents. I'm not saying we should emulate their style of play. That would be downright stupid, seeing as we lack these world class individuals. We COULD however develop a style of play, that would in fact utilize our championship class players to the best of their abilities, wouldn't you agree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 21 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay cool, got a spare £750M to lend the club? Actually I do, sadly we have this thing with FFP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, vreitti said: Actually I do, sadly we have this thing with FFP... OK, in that case: Do you have a spare £750m to lend me then please? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post srsmithusa Posted October 24, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I think the majority will agree with this. The question is can he get us promoted this season? Current form suggests it's possible. He has to go though end of the season regardless of how we end this season. "I think the majority will agree with this." - I do "The question is can he get us promoted this season?" Absolutely spot on. That is the nub of it all. If the answer were a clear yes we would nearly all support him. if it were a clear no we would nearly all be wanting him out. Current form suggests it's possible. - I agree, but I emphasize "current form". But 12 month form does not. that's why I remain a critic, but not "currently" on a Bruce out campaign. "He has to go through end of the season regardless of how we end this season." Wait! What? Because he is producing good results recently, we must commit regardless of any stink-fest that comes next? If he loses the next 12 straight we have to stick till the end of the season? Seriously? I'm for sticking with him as long as it seems reasonable to likely that he will get us promoted. But if and when it appears he has lost the plot and non-promotion is the more likely outcome, I'll be calling for his dismissal without hesitation (again). As you said, "current form suggests it's possible" and I agree. But form tends to be temporary. Let's just wait and see before we make a commitment to the entire season. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) This^ Bruce has still not proved (for us) that he can put a run of more than a dozen games where we accrue enough ppg that decides the end position after 46 games. And before jumping on a „wait till the whole season’s finished“ bandwagon. If I had the choice of giving that chance? I go for a big NO. Edited October 24, 2017 by Grasshopper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 36 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: "I think the majority will agree with this." - I do "The question is can he get us promoted this season?" Absolutely spot on. That is the nub of it all. If the answer were a clear yes we would nearly all support him. if it were a clear no we would nearly all be wanting him out. Current form suggests it's possible. - I agree, but I emphasize "current form". But 12 month form does not. that's why I remain a critic, but not "currently" on a Bruce out campaign. "He has to go through end of the season regardless of how we end this season." Wait! What? Because he is producing good results recently, we must commit regardless of any stink-fest that comes next? If he loses the next 12 straight we have to stick till the end of the season? Seriously? I'm for sticking with him as long as it seems reasonable to likely that he will get us promoted. But if and when it appears he has lost the plot and non-promotion is the more likely outcome, I'll be calling for his dismissal without hesitation (again). As you said, "current form suggests it's possible" and I agree. But form tends to be temporary. Let's just wait and see before we make a commitment to the entire season. Sorry I should have been clearer with the last sentence. There was also a miss spelling of 'though'. I didn't mean he should stay until the end of the season regardless. What I meant was he should go regardless of how we end the season, even promotion. If we get to the stage this season where promotion is escaping us then he should go sooner. regarding form I noticed we are 2 in the form chart of last 10 games which is encouraging. Shef United are top and I doubt that will last. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Sorry I should have been clearer with the last sentence. There was also a miss spelling of 'though'. I didn't mean he should stay until the end of the season regardless. What I meant was he should go regardless of how we end the season, even promotion. If we get to the stage this season where promotion is escaping us then he should go sooner. regarding form I noticed we are 2 in the form chart of last 10 games which is encouraging. Shef United are top and I doubt that will last. well, in that case, I pretty much agree with everything in your first post. (please consider my dissent retracted.) based on current form he has us on a promotion trajectory. But even if he gets us there, he's not the man to see us climb up the premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, vreitti said: Actually I do, sadly we have this thing with FFP... I don't have any FFP restrictions, I'll just take a cool £1M if okay? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay cool, got a spare £750M to lend the club? Well I have but I’m buggered if m going to waste it trying to make you miserable lot happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I don't have any FFP restrictions, I'll just take a cool £1M if okay? I‘d take a fiver. I came home last night and had ran out of sugar & milk for my morning coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Grasshopper said: I‘d take a fiver. I came home last night and had ran out of sugar & milk for my morning coffee Nah, you didn't.... Bruce robbed them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I'm looking forward to see how far it'll go with Bruce and the vocal detractors - 'the last 20 games mean nothing! He's still terrible!' etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted October 24, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, lexicon said: I'm looking forward to see how far it'll go with Bruce and the vocal detractors - 'the last 20 games mean nothing! He's still terrible!' etc. Well personally... I don't think I will ever be a fan, based on what I've seen so far I just don't ever think he will be the sort of manager I want to be in charge of this and responsible for trying to rebuild it. For a whole host of reasons. I'm willing him to achieve our aim of promotion but even if its achieved I would still like to see him replaced in the summer. I appreciate that might be odd to some, unpalatable even but I just don't enjoy his approach to the game or think that it will be good enough if we are to really rebuild this club which it needs. I see Bruce as a means to an end, I did when he was appointed and do even more so now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Penny for the guy ? That guy is me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Well personally... I don't think I will ever be a fan, based on what I've seen so far I just don't ever think he will be the sort of manager I want to be in charge of this and responsible for trying to rebuild it. For a whole host of reasons. I'm willing him to achieve our aim of promotion but even if its achieved I would still like to see him replaced in the summer. I appreciate that might be odd to some, unpalatable even but I just don't enjoy his approach to the game or think that it will be good enough if we are to really rebuild this club which it needs. I see Bruce as a means to an end, I did when he was appointed and do even more so now. It's horses for courses, Trent. I think you'd be pushed to find someone who thinks that he's the right man for the rebuild beyond promotion but that's not the issue that we're facing right now. The kind of guy who is right for the rebuild in the Premier league could easily not be the right guy for the situation we find ourselves in now and I think that Adkins at Southampton is a good example of that. I think we'd find it hard to find someone who can fit both profiles. As for me, I'm only loyal to results when it comes to our incumbent manager (or any, come to think of it) - if Bruce is delivering then that's fine by me, if he doesn't for a prolonged period then I'd want him out like I have done at earlier points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 minute ago, lexicon said: It's horses for courses, Trent. I think you'd be pushed to find someone who thinks that he's the right man for the rebuild beyond promotion but that's not the issue that we're facing right now. The kind of guy who is right for the rebuild in the Premier league could easily not be the right guy for the situation we find ourselves in now and I think that Adkins at Southampton is a good example of that. I think we'd find it hard to find someone who can fit both profiles. As for me, I'm only loyal to results when it comes to our incumbent manager (or any, come to think of it) - if Bruce is delivering then that's fine by me, if he doesn't for a prolonged period then I'd want him out like I have done at earlier points. The „Is Bruce the man?“ will show soon enough with either a rise to 1st/2nd or remaining in the top 6. So I guess it’s irrelevant who gets us up or how. The only point is that we get promoted. Preferably last season (didnt happen) then this season (if not) every season after that till it happens, even with or without Bruce, Wyness, Round & DrT for that matter. The only difference we have here is the belief of some over others with alternative views. The frustrating thing for me is being „deemed“ wrong because I want our course changed. Just because a certain manager is in post does NOT mean that that default is right and an alternative view is less credible. Untill our position in the table is „more than likely to end in promotion“ be that 1st, 2nd or there abouts (ala SB definition) then surely the logical view is that there is a degree if doubt. The level of doubt is open to debate for both extremes, but pouring scourn on one view is neither fair or logical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: The „Is Bruce the man?“ will show soon enough with either a rise to 1st/2nd or remaining in the top 6. So I guess it’s irrelevant who gets us up or how. The only point is that we get promoted. Preferably last season (didnt happen) then this season (if not) every season after that till it happens, even with or without Bruce, Wyness, Round & DrT for that matter. The only difference we have here is the belief of some over others with alternative views. The frustrating thing for me is being „deemed“ wrong because I want our course changed. Just because a certain manager is in post does NOT mean that that default is right and an alternative view is less credible. Untill our position in the table is „more than likely to end in promotion“ be that 1st, 2nd or there abouts (ala SB definition) then surely the logical view is that there is a degree if doubt. The level of doubt is open to debate for both extremes, but pouring scourn on one view is neither fair or logical. Haven't you fairly consistently stated that Bruce is not the man for the job and will not get us promoted? (apologies if I'm imagining things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: The „Is Bruce the man?“ will show soon enough with either a rise to 1st/2nd or remaining in the top 6. So I guess it’s irrelevant who gets us up or how. The only point is that we get promoted. Preferably last season (didnt happen) then this season (if not) every season after that till it happens, even with or without Bruce, Wyness, Round & DrT for that matter. The only difference we have here is the belief of some over others with alternative views. The frustrating thing for me is being „deemed“ wrong because I want our course changed. Just because a certain manager is in post does NOT mean that that default is right and an alternative view is less credible. Untill our position in the table is „more than likely to end in promotion“ be that 1st, 2nd or there abouts (ala SB definition) then surely the logical view is that there is a degree if doubt. The level of doubt is open to debate for both extremes, but pouring scourn on one view is neither fair or logical. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 hours ago, dn1982 said: But he's good enough to mount a challenge in this league and even though I think we should be playing far better football as long as we grind out enough wins to get up I'll take it. We will win more games by one goal than most and be having conversations about us playing crap and not finishing games off all season but ultimately this year is all about going up. Something BRuce knows how to do even if it's baffling having watched his team. It’s taken him a year and a bit to reach a top 5 berth - I reckon both RDM & Garde would have done it in less - but hey that’s just my view - not a fan tbh with you 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 Bruce wants to the fan base over he needs to be going to the sty and winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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